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Sexism and Men's Issues

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MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:

If you don't like a thread, don't post in it. Posting in a thread simply to say you don't like it, or that it's stupid, or to point out that you 'knew who made it before you even clicked on it', or to predict that it will end badly will get you warned.

The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.


Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.

No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:

  • The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
  • Circumcision
  • Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
  • The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
  • Sexual abuse of men.
  • Family law.
  • General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.

I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.

Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.

Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.

Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM

somerandomdude from Dark side of the moon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
#8076: Aug 8th 2013 at 7:05:08 PM

[up]This one is definitely true, and we need to start making it clear that women sexualizing teenage boys is not, in fact, cool.

Twilight Moms creep me the fuck out, yo.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaand of course I top the page.

edited 8th Aug '13 7:05:27 PM by somerandomdude

ok boomer
Mandemo Since: Apr, 2010
#8077: Aug 8th 2013 at 7:21:49 PM

Indeed. We should hold all underage sexualization on the same ground and stop holding men as "greater bad". So, how do we fix this problem?

Solution one: Make it Okay for men to act like this. Not my favorite idea, due to chance it can make real pedos crimes easier to commit.

Solution two: Make it not Okay for women to act like this. A lot more easier and should not be that hard, since we can just ramp up the perceived creepy factor, by using media to constantly portray these women as "creepy".

Of course, this means that we should put woman-on-underaged-boy sex equally criminal to man-on-underaged-girl.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#8078: Aug 8th 2013 at 8:06:22 PM

For those of the concerned. Teachers banging their pupils at least still gets the women arrested on a regular basis.

Who watches the watchmen?
ronin504 Dick Tater Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Dick Tater
#8079: Aug 9th 2013 at 2:02:12 AM

Generally true, but it seems like the punishment is generally lighter if she's pretty.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
Mandemo Since: Apr, 2010
#8080: Aug 9th 2013 at 2:12:51 AM

Not to mention the treatment of the victim.

"You lucky bastard, you got to nail that hot teacher!"

Except when it's female-on-female. Then it's sick.

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#8081: Aug 9th 2013 at 2:22:38 AM

So in other words, we need to stop making "GET LAID AT ANY COST" the goal of any "real" man.

Except, when you try to do that, you just get mocked for it.

Besserwisser from Planet of Hats Since: Dec, 2009
#8082: Aug 9th 2013 at 2:30:02 AM

Except when it's female-on-female. Then it's sick.
Even then it's not universally seen as that. The Vagina Monologues originally had a piece about the rape of a 13-year-old girl by a much older woman. To quote: "If it was rape, it was a good rape." Granted, it was changed in later versions of the play but I can't see something like it with a male rapist going into a play in the first place.

Kzickas Since: Apr, 2009
#8083: Aug 9th 2013 at 7:01:35 AM

It was changed to 16 I believe. And I don't think the "good rape" line was ever removed. From what I've heard the Vagina Monologues seem kind of pro-rape though.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8084: Aug 9th 2013 at 7:12:34 AM

Generally true, but it seems like the punishment is generally lighter if she's pretty.

That's because, societally speaking, nothing is creepy if you're attractive enough. This is true of both genders.

  • Ugly man sneaking into a woman's bedroom to watch her sleep - Restraining order.
  • Sexy man sneaking into a woman's bedroom to watch her sleep - Marry me now.

  • Sexy woman walking up to a stranger and making out with him - hot.
  • Ugly woman walking up to a stranger and making out with him - oh god, stop touching me.

How attracted the victimized party is to the offender can make a world of difference.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RockLeeYourFace Splendid Ninja from Narutard Land (or Texas) Since: Jul, 2011
Splendid Ninja
#8085: Aug 9th 2013 at 9:30:00 AM

Being a sparkly vampire definitely helps you get off the hook when it comes to the sleep-watching.

"With hard work and dedication, I will become a splendid ninja!"
Mandemo Since: Apr, 2010
#8086: Aug 9th 2013 at 9:49:27 AM

I agree we need to get rid of "Get a woman! NOW!" attitude towards men.

I mean, is it really that hard to wrap your mind around a concept that I might be a friend with a woman without wanting to date or have sex with her? Really? People are constantly telling me to make a move or I "lose her"...

Why can't I just be a friend? Do I really need to push for something neither of us is wanting? I mean, if she wanted to date me, then she should tell me so. She has not made any indication that she wants us to be anything else than friends and this is perfectly fine by me.

So why do everyone else, men and women, insist me that I must make a move?

edited 9th Aug '13 9:49:51 AM by Mandemo

DiscoDancer EUREKA! from California (or Japan) Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
EUREKA!
#8087: Aug 9th 2013 at 10:59:46 AM

I seriously had a guy who said he wouldn't talk to me unless I got a girlfriend. I haven't talked to him in years.

Your Honor...
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#8088: Aug 9th 2013 at 11:06:47 AM

I've seen that same issue with woman, but it is mostly from the older generation. Young woman talking to other young woman seem to be more okay with not having a partner, is it more skewered young when Men do it to other men?

This issue has never effected me I've just seen it done to other people.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#8090: Aug 9th 2013 at 12:17:57 PM

I think it's more reflective of this whole gender sectioning that happens when you're younger. Boys play with boys and hang out with boys and do things that boys do. Lest they grow up and catch "Teh Gay".

For girls, there's kind of a simultaneous acceptance and rejection of girls doing things that boys do. Those who reject usually do it either on the grounds of pure misogyny (girls just shouldn't do it, period) or on the grounds of attractiveness (sure, doing boys stuff is just fine so long as it increases your chances of landing a boyfriend, otherwise, forget it).

But in either case, it starts with the separation of the genders and what they "should" and "shouldn't" have an interest or aptitude in while young.

Mandemo Since: Apr, 2010
#8091: Aug 9th 2013 at 12:38:37 PM

One thing I kinda wish to address is the lack of real role models for boys. All they got is either this ultra macho soldier guy or... yeah, I think that's about it. It's the only "accepted" role model. You must always be the hero, always ready for action, etc.

Girls get all kinds of role models to follow, but boys still get this one role model.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#8092: Aug 9th 2013 at 1:07:10 PM

[up]Really?

How about an astronaut, a secret agent like James Bond, the president, even a geek hero like Einstein or Edison. You're saying those aren't acceptable role models for boys?

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8093: Aug 9th 2013 at 1:09:03 PM

Whereas female role models consist of Barbie and...that other Barbie with the different skirt.

It's really hard to claim that girls have tons of role models they can choose from, while boys don't.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#8094: Aug 9th 2013 at 1:27:47 PM

Pretty much, there are a lot of role models for men. Nearly every superhero character is not the stereotypical manly soldier type.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#8095: Aug 9th 2013 at 3:07:54 PM

[up]Hey, just look at Spider-Man. Pure teenage nerd fantasy.

What's precedent ever done for us?
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#8096: Aug 9th 2013 at 3:11:38 PM

[up]I cannot tell if that is supposed to be sarcasm.

You know... I have been thinking, Maybe someone could make a role models thread?

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#8097: Aug 9th 2013 at 3:15:45 PM

[up]Bullied, hyperintelligent teenager gets superpowers, is suddenly jaw-droppingly good-looking and immensely strong, gets to deliver justice to evildoers, date the hottest girl in school, and be the smartest, funniest guy in the room at any given moment. Hard to argue there isn't a certain fantasy element there, despite all the soap-opera angst the guy's associated with.

What's precedent ever done for us?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8098: Aug 9th 2013 at 3:21:05 PM

The same is true of magic-users in storytelling; wizards are quadratic because they play to the idea that all those years spent locked in your room reading books will give you the power to destroy entire cities with the sheer power of your mind. They turn intelligence into explosive, unbeatable raw force that puts those bullies and jocks to shame.

All those guys that spent the last ten years lifting weights? They're just there to soak up damage for you, until your book-reading unlocks the secrets to conquering the universe, destroying all who oppose you, and saving the day with the Power of Intelligence. Pure nerd power fantasy.

edited 9th Aug '13 3:21:42 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Jetyl The Dev Cat from my apartment Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The Dev Cat
#8099: Aug 9th 2013 at 5:16:44 PM

ok, on the role models thing. I don't get why anyone needs a role model. just never made sense to me.

also this:

I think it's more reflective of this whole gender sectioning that happens when you're younger. Boys play with boys and hang out with boys and do things that boys do. Lest they grow up and catch "Teh Gay".

am I the only who sees how ridiculous this is, from a logical standpoint I mean. there are a lot of ways this line of thinking is ridiculous. but assuming sexuality even worked this way, what kind of logic is it to have boys only connect and relate to others of the same gender in most of their formative years, and assume that they'd be straight? or the opposite, a boy connecting and relating to exclusively the opposite gender, oops they must turn out gay. I mean what?

that illogic aside, I do think this bizarre notion of keeping the genders rather separate in a persons early years (along with the insane notion that a guy and girl cannot have a purely platonic friendship) are some of the most detrimental. especially when you look at media and how Most Writers are Male plus these concepts, the best understanding they'll have of the other gender is basically just sterotypes

edited 9th Aug '13 5:18:04 PM by Jetyl

I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
Besserwisser from Planet of Hats Since: Dec, 2009
#8100: Aug 9th 2013 at 5:23:52 PM

There's some reasoning behind the idea that girls and boys keep apart in earlier parts of their development so they can "rediscover" the other gender when they enter puberty. It's similar but not identical to the way individual girls and boys growing up aside each other and then being unable to see the other as sexual partners, viewing them as siblings even if they aren't.


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