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This thread's for talking about the Marvel Comics line, whether the comics are decades old or brand new.

As well as the superhero tales of the Marvel Universe, that also includes all the other things Marvel's done (Epic Comics, Icon Comics, Star Comics and all the rest), as well as the older stories by Atlas and Timely, the companies that later became Marvel.

Acquisitions like Malibu Comics and Miracleman are also on-topic, as are the licensed 20th Century Studios titles, the Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Zoids and Transformers comics, and all of the comics created locally by regional imprints like Marvel UK and Marvel Italia.

  • We have dedicated threads for some groups of titles (such as Spider-Man and the X-Men). You can still discuss them here, but you might want to use the more specific threads.
  • We also have threads for Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Predator and some of the other franchises. Sometimes it may be more useful to discuss the comics there rather than here — but they're still on-topic and there's no hard rule.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about them here.

Discussions that are only about Marvel adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics (e.g. if comparing Marvel to a DC story). When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

    Original text of OP 
A thread for all the miscellaneous Marvel discussion that doesn't have its own thread.

So apparently, they're making a Black Panther movie. Let's hope Hudlin is kept as far away as possible. On a related note, anyone think that the whole 'Super Hero that is also a King/Ruler' is kind of ridiculous? I mean where do heroes like Aquaman and T'Challa find the time to both lead a nation and go gallavanting on the other side of the globe?

Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 1st 2024 at 8:36:28 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#53976: Mar 30th 2022 at 6:18:12 PM

Also this week comes out a new Grand Design series, this time for Hulk

Anyone read it?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53977: Mar 30th 2022 at 6:22:00 PM

Hopefully it’s less blisteringly stupid than the FF one

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#53978: Mar 31st 2022 at 12:42:38 AM

What was wrong with the FF Grand Design exactly?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53979: Mar 31st 2022 at 12:59:08 AM

It seemed less concerned with trying to grand design Fantastic Four and more with tying into X-Men Grand Design. Repeating several of the beats from X-Men Grand Design despite them not being relevant to Fantastic Four. There's a whole stretch of Days of Future Past stuff.

Franklin was in Days of Future Past or I think the sequels but its not a story thats important TO the Fantastic Four. Its not their story. But FFGD turns it into a Fantastic Four story by just making shit up. I think the Baxter Building turns into a space ship and ditches Earth? It was weird.

Fantastic Four Grand Design made the central thesis of the pre-FF parts of the story Reed preparing for alien life to visit Earth to prove his dipshit crackpot dad right and then when aliens show up because its Fantastic Four they met aliens on like their second day, its just brushed over without a big deal being made of it. In like a montage of various shit the FF deal with.

Also, Agatha Harkness did a hand that rocks the cradle on Franklin? And then raised him to be the Anti-Christ? In terms of trying to treat all of FF as one cohesive work, this isn't. This emerges from nothing and nowhere. Its just doing some Inferno stuff to tie in to X-Men Grand Design having Inferno stuff.

But it gets brought up and abandoned in like one page. With time skip Franklin just dismissing it as a weird phase and lightly blaming his parents for picking a Satan worshiping witch to be his nanny.

Fantastic Four Grand Design is a horrible abridged/cohesive summarizing of Fantastic Four but its a great shit post.

Edit: Here's some out of context moments from it. But every moment from it feels out of context so that's redundant.

Edit edit: Oh I forgot, it also had Sue cheating on Reed with Namor like the whole time. Franklin is born with gills.

Edited by Bocaj on Mar 31st 2022 at 4:19:13 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#53980: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:15:28 AM

Okay thanks that neatly sums it up. Yeeesh what a mess.

And Jesus fuck does no one respect Sue? Why do they always have her lay with the wretch that is Namor instead of anyone the bare minimum of a real man? Even Tony's a less fucked up lay than Namor.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#53981: Mar 31st 2022 at 2:14:46 AM

What the heck is Grand Design? Is that some kind of Life Story-esque series?

Terra787 Since: Nov, 2021
#53982: Mar 31st 2022 at 2:49:55 AM

It is basically a 6 issue summary of their subjects(X-Men, Fantastic Four) that attempts to be more coherent than the original stories. For example Cyclops doesn't get a blonde haired pirate gf after Jean Greys death, he meets Madelyne Pryor as a red haired pirate.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#53983: Mar 31st 2022 at 2:52:32 AM

Grand Design started with X-Men Grand Design by Ed Piskor is to basically take the entire convoluted history of a franchise and then distill/centralize into a single timeline of events.

In X-Men’s case it weaves the events of their 60’s starting adventures all the way to the 90’s to great acclaim.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 31st 2022 at 2:53:03 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#53984: Mar 31st 2022 at 3:43:49 AM

So it serves as a crash course for X-Men History? Interesting, because X-men are a bizzare blindspot in my Marvel knowlage for some reason.

Shame that the Fantastic four neglected to live up to that premis and instead tried to build a universe out if the X-Men History.

Drat I'd love a series of grand design comics I could read for X-Men, FF and Avengers and then have the gist of what 60s, 70s, 80, and 90s marvel.

I doubt they'd be able to do it for any time beyond 2003, given how bogged down the setting got with event comics that don't have impact that last beyond four years.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#53985: Mar 31st 2022 at 10:48:29 AM

Oh man, Fantastic Four Grand Design looks hilarious.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#53986: Mar 31st 2022 at 11:43:28 AM

So - any thoughts on the new Punisher (2022) series?

I must admit, I'm not expecting any of these changes to stick. We've had Angelic Punisher, we've had War Machine Punisher and we've had Frankencastle (which was actually pretty fun).

But every time he comes back to his original costume and approach. He's an extremely deadly vigilante who doesn't have powers and shoots people he thinks need shooting. And he's a contrast to all those less murderous superheroes who take prisoners, which is why most of his best Marvel Universe appearances work.

(Punisher MAX is a different thing entirely, but Ennis still made some horribly bleak stories work really well)

The new Punisher with katanas and Marvel's favourite evil supernatural ninjas is just giving me flashbacks to the weaker bits of Netflix's Daredevil season 2. And the new demonic chest logo isn't helping.

(This is not meant as an appeal for folk to go update the works page, btw - but given the level of hype around the relaunch, the lack of tropers rushing to add stuff after that first issue feel as if it indicates a story that's not jam-packed full of twists and tropes, and also one that didn't immediately fire up fandom?)

Thoughts?

shanejayell Since: Jun, 2011
#53987: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:06:05 PM

To be brutally honest, I think every Punisher series should be a MAX title. He doesn't make sense in the Marvel U, since he raises the question of why the heroes don't bring him in. Especially with how huge his kill count is.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53988: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:12:06 PM

I forgot Punisher was alive

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#53989: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:17:41 PM

He needs to be locked up in some abandoned place miles away from any other living being unless he starts killing everyone else in the building. Or he gets broken out by someone like Fury for a job, with all that entails.

Castle is one of those characters that you feel like should have been retired a good while ago.

Edited by Blueace on Mar 31st 2022 at 5:19:36 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#53990: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:20:57 PM

An average superhuman should have already beat his ass like a clown and permanently cripple him already.

He is just a guy with guns he's not very impressive otherwise.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#53991: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:28:40 PM

Given all the publicity over his appropriation by far-right Psychopathic Manchildren I would not be surprised if this new direction was done BECAUSE it moves him away from traditional vigilantism.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#53992: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:39:20 PM

It's Clobbering Time postponed for now

Edited by Zarius on Mar 31st 2022 at 1:39:27 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#53993: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:41:50 PM

Yeah, it feels a lot like Marvel are trying to save the franchise by reinventing him as something the alt-right and friends won't latch onto in the same way. And I don't think it's going to work.

Personally, I'm all for the Punisher in the MU, but mostly as a cautionary tale rather than a hero protagonist. As suggested above, he should probably be spending most of his time in a cell.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53994: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:48:07 PM

[up][up] Weird that they called it Clobberin’ Time and not marvel team up or whatever book it clearly is meant to evoke

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#53995: Mar 31st 2022 at 1:55:12 PM

See I think the issue is they can try and retool the character in the comics all they want it's really not going to achieve what they think it will. The Alt-Right who latched onto the Punisher Iconography did so because of the Netflix series. The wider Pop-Cultural portrayal is what people recognize.

It's why I'm kind of surprised they added The Punisher to Disney+ with all the bad press around the character.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#53996: Mar 31st 2022 at 2:06:59 PM

I feel like retiring the character outright would be giving the man babies what they want, though. “Alright, we’re out of ideas, you can have him.”

If it were up to me I think I’d either return him to being a villain, or do a story where he realizes that institutional corruption is a much bigger threat than street crime and point him in that direction.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53997: Mar 31st 2022 at 2:19:24 PM

Have him quit shooting people and open a small business. Action keeps happening there to his annoyance.

The IP is maintained and nobody is happy, especially not Frank

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#53999: Mar 31st 2022 at 2:54:11 PM

Well, the latest story has resurrected his wife Maria, so maybe he could be happy?

Running his corner shop, or maybe a garage. Wrist and ankle monitors to ensure he doesn't violate his parole (I mean, sure, he should get a life sentence - but it's the Marvel Universe).

Neighbourhood kids pointing at the old guy with the scary rep, telling stories. Daredevil, Spider-Man and Speedball (just because) dropping by to keep an eye on him. And to ensure Fury doesn't reenlist him.

And organised crime pointedly not messing with him, because nobody wants to ruin his civilian life and get the Punisher back as The Determinator, on yet another Roaring Rampage of Revenge.

I could enjoy an issue or two of that.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#54000: Mar 31st 2022 at 3:20:07 PM

Punisher: MAX had a pretty great arc where the villain is white collar crime. It's also a good example of the Punisher not being some tactical genius-Frank makes a number of mistakes that he points out in narration, and basically mentions he's lucky to be alive for how badly he misread the situation at certain points.


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