This thread's for talking about the Marvel Comics line, whether the comics are decades old or brand new.
As well as the superhero tales of the Marvel Universe, that also includes all the other things Marvel's done (Epic Comics, Icon Comics, Star Comics and all the rest), as well as the older stories by Atlas and Timely, the companies that later became Marvel.
Acquisitions like Malibu Comics and Miracleman are also on-topic, as are the licensed 20th Century Studios titles, the Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Zoids and Transformers comics, and all of the comics created locally by regional imprints like Marvel UK and Marvel Italia.
- We have dedicated threads for some groups of titles (such as Spider-Man and the X-Men). You can still discuss them here, but you might want to use the more specific threads.
- We also have threads for Indiana Jones
, Star Wars
, Predator
and some of the other franchises. Sometimes it may be more useful to discuss the comics there rather than here — but they're still on-topic and there's no hard rule.
Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about them here.
Discussions that are only about Marvel adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.
Please follow the spoiler policy rules
- tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics (e.g. if comparing Marvel to a DC story). When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).
So apparently,
they're making a Black Panther movie. Let's hope Hudlin is kept as far away as possible. On a related note, anyone think that the whole 'Super Hero that is also a King/Ruler' is kind of ridiculous? I mean where do heroes like Aquaman and T'Challa find the time to both lead a nation and go gallavanting on the other side of the globe?
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 1st 2024 at 8:36:28 PM
Being Hank Pym is suffering.
Er, was.
He's turbo dead now. Deader than dead. Can't get much deader.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThe Avengers characters just seem to attract writing with weird or horrible sexual implications. There's Moondragon using her telepathy to make Thor her love slave and it is heavily implied they had sex while he was in that state; Scarlet Witch being implied to have sexually assaulted Wonder Man while she was corrupted in "Darker Than Scarlet and, of course, the infamous Avengers #200.
Hell, we can probably add Tigra getting impregnated by the Skrull who was impersonating Hank Pym given the lack of true consent on Tigra's part. And this story was written in the 2000s.
So I just watched the episode of EMH with the appearance of Scott Lang and his daughter Cassie, and I got to thinking: what's going on with Cassie in the comics.
Last I checked, she had lost her Stature identity and taken on the identity of Stinger, which was what she was known as in the Marvel Comics 2 line.
But now I got no clue what she's doing.
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
Moondragon raping Thor was Jim Shooter, Wanda assaulting Wonder Man was Byrne, Avengers #200 was a few different people, including Shooter. So yeah, there's a few writers with shitty histories.
I still find Englehart to be one of the strangest, though. I always got the impression he was fascinated by Madonna/Whore Complex, and sexual politics. When he wrote the main Avengers title, he had Mantis, who was in a relationship with Swordsman, try to seduce Vision, who was in a relationship with Wanda. When he wrote the Vision and Scarlet Witch maxi, he had Crystal cheat on Quicksilver. There was his turning Tigra into a slut who was unable to control her desires. Moving into the '90s, when he wrote the Strangers at Malibu, he had an android woman who was deeply naive and very loving and didn't really seem to get monogamy.
Englehart's handling of women's sexuality isn't always bad. But it's a running theme in his work. If I was the scholarly type, I would absolutely love to do a deep analysis of sexual politics in Englehart's work. I'm not scholarly, though, unfortunately, and it doesn't seem like anyone else has ever written about it. It's a shame, because it seems like it'd be a fascinating topic to read.
Edited by Tiamatty on Feb 25th 2022 at 7:16:21 AM
X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Don't forget that he was one of the co-creators of the New Guardians, the superheroes on a quest to breed to pass on their superior genes!
I tend to semi-dismissively think of Englehart as the epitome of the stereotypical hippie who's only in it for drugs and sex. His early Marvel work especially had solid engagement with the politics of the day (giving us 50's Cap and the Serpent Crown, for example), and it kind of folds together with his bizarre sexual stuff when viewed through the lens of shallow hippiedom.
Yes, the New Guardians and their quest to breed the next generation!!!.... slightly hampered by the fact that their ranks included a plant, a robot, a ghost, someone with HIV, and a gay guy.
But it did give us the greatest supervillain ever... SNOWFLAME, the cocaine-powered drug lord!
Edited by lbssb on Feb 25th 2022 at 5:48:08 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonSo that's where Snowflame came from.
Oddly enough, I'm glad to finally know where the ultimate Cocaine disciple came from.
One Strip! One Strip!At the least, Moondragon raping Thor was supposed to be a villainous thing since she had also taken over a planet by that point and melts Drax’s brain later on in the story
It wasn’t treated as seriously as it should have been maybe - being packaged in the overall violation of also controlling him into beating up his friends - but the point of that arc in Avengers is notably shitty person Moondragon who has mostly been on the right side does a villainy because she was inspired by Korvac
Edited by Bocaj on Feb 25th 2022 at 9:28:25 AM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAnd from what I can tell, the Drax brain melting thing is the only thing she felt guilt over....
But you know, he is her dad, so that kinda makes sense.
But yeah, you're not a good person Moondragon.
One Strip! One Strip!She did have a sort of realization that her sexual politics were messed up and based more around power than love
I think when she was on the Defenders.
That was her weirdo community service, being forced to be on the Defenders by Odin
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Funny, in retrospect, that when Moondragon turned down Cloud's romantic advances, Cloud decided that maybe they'd have better luck as a guy. Which is even funnier in retrospect because Cloud taking a male form turned Iceman away from them.
Moondragon eventually had a redemption arc...in an Avengers mini-series from the early 00's that nobody read. Avengers Infinity, named in an obvious attempt to cash in on Avengers Forever, and later renamed Avengers Infinity Classic for its trade to not confuse it with the Infinity crossover. As far as I can tell, the mini was Roger Stern's intended grand finale for his run in the 80's, given it pays off both his gradual build-up of Monica as an inspiration leader figure, and also has a big (if...very 80's style) moment of Moondragon realizing how terrible she had been, paying off both Thor bristling at her all mini and all of the scattered references to Moondragon being The Worst from Stern's 80's run.
So I recently got into the Daredevil Netflix show, and I fully admit my only exposure to Daredevil were his crossovers with Spidey, and some collections of his Silver Age stories, the man without fear and Born Again.
I thought Wilson Fisk was the man who killed Matt Murdock's dad, or at least killed him back when he was a henchman for someone else. But the show doesn't seem to be building on that, but I am at the episode where Foggy learns who Daredevil is.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"![]()
Nope, in the comics Jack Murdock's death was a lot more mundane. He refused to fight a fixed match, and the crooked promoter sent a random thug to gun him down as payback.
Wilson Fisk actually had no connection to Jack Murdock whatsoever. He never even worked for Roscoe Sweeney the crooked promoter.
Edited by M84 on Feb 26th 2022 at 11:32:17 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedYeah, Jack Murdock's fate is the same, but I guess the Ultimate Spider-Man, Movie, 90s cartoon, and the Frank Miller origin story changed it to Fisk to make things more personal. Like it's still to kill him for not throwing a match.
Which I actually prefer, The Fixer went down in the first issue and is never brought up again.
I do find it pretty interesting, that Daredevil's origin is darker in the 90s Spider-Man cartoon. He witnesses his dad actually collecting money for Fisk, and ran away in shame, which then results in the truck blinding him.
That stood out to me as a kid.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 26th 2022 at 10:37:05 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"I actually hate it when the origin story is changed to make it more personal. I didn't like it when the first Batman movie had the future Joker kill Bruce Wayne's parents either.
The fact that Matt Murdock continues to fight crime even after the death of the man responsible for his father's murder shows that Matt doesn't just fight for personal reasons. He does it because it's the right thing to do.
Disgusted, but not surprised
TBH, yeah, I don't like making it personal between Batman and Joker too.
But something about the Kingpin creating Daredevil makes their dynamic more interesting IMO.
Like Fisk has fought many superheroes like Spidey and Captain America, but between him and Matt, there's something more personal. Same with the cartoon, when Daredevil showed up, it really felt like Fisk and him had history, while Spidey and Kingpin was more Superhero vs bad guy.
Granted, I guess ruining Matt Murdock's life that one time is enough have Daredevil put you at the top of his list.
Doesn't help that Daredevil villains are weird.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 26th 2022 at 10:44:18 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"My headcanon for Batman '89 is that everytime Batman encounters a goon he incorrectly remembers that goon as being the guy who killed his parents.
Still it is wild to me that none of the people associated with Battling Jack Murdoch's death had any staying power in comics mythology. The boxer Jack didn't take a fall to, Rocky Davis, the mobster who arranged it, The Fixer, or the goon who actually killed him? All of them don't really have any lasting appearences.
In the comics, it's actually Daredevil who helped create Kingpin. See, as one of his schemes to cement his power as New York's crime boss, Fisk made sure all of the info he had on other crime bosses ended up with Daredevil. This ultimately resulted in Fisk's rivals being taken out of the picture, making his organization more powerful than any other Maggia family.
Disgusted, but not surprisedWait I thought it was Spidey quitting in his 50th issue that lead to the rise of the Kingpin.
Since he outright states with Spider-Man gone, he can move in and take over.
Fisk was a Spider-Man villain first after all.
![]()
Unless the Man without fear is non-canon, I thought it was Fisk who was the grunt who killed Battlin Murdock.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 26th 2022 at 10:50:33 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

wait is hank still part of ultron?
Edited by Saiga on Feb 24th 2022 at 11:09:36 AM