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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#6701: Apr 21st 2016 at 12:59:35 PM

Yeah a mod told us to drop it, I belive it runs into the rules about either off topicness or importing drama, either way, let's move on.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6702: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:07:17 PM

So, I have been thinking about those Japanese women who dare not speak out when groped. The question that interests me in those situations is, what does a powerful, rich, high-status person do? Those people tend to define politeness, yet also tend to be extremely skilled at asserting themselves and getting their way, if only because they expect to.

So what does a powerful Japanese woman do when she's groped?

Likewise, what does a powerful American woman do with a stalker, in the sort of situation where women of lower status would hide in the toilet?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6703: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:08:32 PM

...societal pressure doesn't only exist for the poor.

If anything, it can get even worse for the rich because wealth and prestige are heavily influenced by societal status. A poor person has the luxury of telling someone to go f*ck himself where a rich person is going to be blasted in the nightly news for doing the same.

There are a lot more eyes on powerful, influential people.

edited 21st Apr '16 1:12:21 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Imca (Veteran)
#6704: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:30:00 PM

What powerful women, women don't GET power back home, it's one of the major reasons I left. note 

There is no glass ceiling, its a fucking cement roof....

edited 21st Apr '16 1:31:19 PM by Imca

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#6705: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:36:34 PM

[up] Where was that, if I don't mind?

Imca (Veteran)
#6706: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:39:46 PM

Japan, like the question presented asks about.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#6707: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:52:36 PM

[up] Ah. Well, the west has made tremendous progress in terms of gender issues in the last 30 years alone, for all the issues that remain. I can only hope the same will eventually be true of Japan.

@TheHandle: As for the American example, probably issues a restraining order and/or sues the stalker. For some reason (tongue), police tend to be quite a bit more responsive to calls coming from wealthy neighborhoods.

@Drake: Only if that person is a celebrity of sorts and/or extremely, extremely wealthy. The "regular" wealthy don't come under nearly that much scrutiny.

edited 21st Apr '16 2:14:31 PM by CaptainCapsase

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6708: Apr 21st 2016 at 3:31:13 PM

[up]That's the sort I meant. Low profile, but still walks down any place like they own it.

Calling the police is a blunt instrument, a second recourse.I was thinking more in terms of social engineering; using status, body language, and harsh words in precisely the right way to get what you want.

In the most extreme cases, think of someone like Oprah. She can judge you and condemn you as sub-human slime with a smile, and make you feel sorry for being born without breaking a sweat.

In the Japanese case (sorry for being persistent) does the Yamato Nadeshiko archetype have no equivalent on the field? I know that they're the social equivalent of a Bad Ass, and just as improbable, but I'm guessing that something like that must exist to inspire it.

I don't think that type of woman would allow themselves to be groped. They would solve it, diplomatically, but they wouldn't stand for the indignity. Ideally, they would verbally eviscerate the men in question, perhaps make them feel like they're an embarrassment to some mother somewhere. Or am I vitally misunderstanding something?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#6709: Apr 21st 2016 at 10:38:15 PM

[up]Let's go to fiction for this one: think Sansa Stark and Cersei Lannister. Both pretty good at different schools of Passive-Aggressive Kombat.

Does neither of them a lick of good against persistent sexist abuse, even though they react with varying degrees of decorum.

In short: if female and Japanese, it doesn't really matter what your station is. You pretty much expect both physical and metaphysical groping... And, are expected to take it like a good little stoic because that's what good girls do.

Politeness and attempts to use social putdowns only gets you so far, and are only about as effective as a cardboard sword when it comes to persistent sexual predators who have tacit social backing.

edited 21st Apr '16 10:42:05 PM by Euodiachloris

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6710: Apr 22nd 2016 at 3:27:19 AM

Well, shit.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#6711: Apr 22nd 2016 at 3:32:17 AM

Yeah, women are much less than even second class citizens in Japan. You can make a strong case for it being the worst developed country on earth with regards to social equality.

Oh really when?
Imca (Veteran)
#6712: Apr 22nd 2016 at 11:14:34 AM

To put it this way, there is now a phone app with a button you can press that asks them to please stop.

._.;

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#6713: Apr 22nd 2016 at 11:17:35 AM

[up].....wait, what? like.....for real?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6714: Apr 22nd 2016 at 11:20:59 AM

The fact that such a thing even needs to exist is depressing.

The fact that it's probably not going to make a dent in molestations on trains is even moreso. I don't have much faith in Siri's ability to repel a train groper. While many cases of sexual assault and outright rape are rooted in ignorance rather than malice, I'm pretty sure the Train Groper knows exactly what he's doing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6715: Apr 22nd 2016 at 11:24:44 AM

Not to mention he's got all the porn glorifying him!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#6717: Apr 22nd 2016 at 11:49:40 AM

[up][up]does it? I mean Im not expern in that but most of the time is show as wrong, laught of it but never as something good.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6718: Apr 22nd 2016 at 12:04:29 PM

In a twisted way, it is. All those stories have an underlying message of "women are only asking to be groped, get all flustered and aroused, and lose all their thin veneer of dignity at your mighty male hands, and the uglier and more repulsive you are, the better! Just do it, man, they'll be addicted and begging for more in no time."

The most depressing part is that every time it's stopped, it's either the male hero saving a good girl (occasionally said hero was perving on her in the first place and is just outraged that the other guy actually went through with it!), or a bad girl blackmailing the villain.

Western porn, for some reason, rarely involves "breaking" stories. Usually the women are aggressively enthusiastic from the get-go.Occasionally, they have to be eased into it, but it's never coercive. And when things get rough, it's only at their unrelenting insistance.

edited 22nd Apr '16 12:06:16 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Imca (Veteran)
#6719: Apr 22nd 2016 at 12:07:23 PM

[up] Probaly because of the.... uhhh cultural difffrences between sexytime....

Which.... I don't know if I really feel comfortable going into detail about. >///<

I mean I know the diffrences, I am just not comfortable explaining them here....

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#6720: Apr 22nd 2016 at 12:38:44 PM

Western porn has plenty of breaking stories. Fifty Shades of Grey for instance.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#6721: Apr 22nd 2016 at 1:08:05 PM

[up] Perhaps, but that's very clearly oriented towards a female audience, as strange as it sounds. I also don't really think you can necessarily blame media for propagating these kinds of behaviors and attitudes, though I'd certainly say they're reflective of them.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6722: Apr 22nd 2016 at 1:26:02 PM

[up][up]Not really porn, more like weak-ass erotica that toys with "impurity" without committing to it. Also causes people to injure themselves and each other.

edited 22nd Apr '16 1:26:45 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#6723: Apr 22nd 2016 at 1:28:58 PM

Well, for what I see in japan train groping is a specific thing, I have a hard time now finding a cultural equivalent but there is.

"Western porn, for some reason, rarely involves "breaking" stories. Usually the women are aggressively enthusiastic from the get-go.Occasionally, they have to be eased into it, but it's never coercive. And when things get rough, it's only at their unrelenting insistance. "

again cultural stuff, how Tobias drake said it? "see women as unicorns....sexy and wonderfull unicorns" we have the ego and the idea of a women going sexy mad of you is better, we understand concern, even if framed in male powerness.

[up][up]that is not breaking at all, christian is a damage individual(not in that he is a violent sociopath but that the text call him like that) is just a clasy story of "virging healing bad but handsome boy" with stemy(HA) BDSM, remenber is twilight book but with less puritant mindset and more psuedo BDSM throw in it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#6724: Apr 22nd 2016 at 1:30:50 PM

[up] Forgive me, but I've only heard of Fifty Shades Of Grey by reputation, so I'm really not in a position to judge.

Imca (Veteran)
#6725: Apr 22nd 2016 at 1:32:33 PM

[up] its sexual abuse the story, but she still concents if that is what you mean.


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