Injustice: DC fighting games

Yeah that was some really bad writing by Taylor in the comics.

He makes the point of showing Superman's fall to be tragic and actually having a fall for him.

Bur with Wonder Woman, nope she was just always an issue and any explanation is one single annual to explain why she's such an asshole.

He is really bad Wonder Woman writer.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 12th 2023 at 8:34:33 AM

I think when it comes to alternate universe stories, an important thing to remember is that somethings things will just be different without any particular explanation. These key differences become the building blocks to explain other, more significant differences, but they are generally not perceived as things the writer needs to explain themselves because they assumption is that the audiences will accept that in some ways alternate universes will be fundamentally distinct.

By that same token, the games never explain why Lex Luthor was a good guy in this universe, for instance.

Yes, it does. But using that as a reason to scorn Injustice is still a clear example of Misblamed, regardless.

That energy would've been better directed at DC itself for refusing to make a decent Wonder Woman adaptation (at the time), then Netherrealm for happening to release a story that featured an evil version of the character.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 12th 2023 at 8:37:58 AM

I mean... injustice is clearly written from a very BIAS perspective

IE how much they treat Damian as a punching bag

Well I mean we cam still blame Netherrealm for the general bad writing of the game.

But like I said:

Key differences not being explained because they need to just be there to explain more plot important differences is a common aspect of alternate universe fiction in general, and as such I can't agree with calling it uniquely bad writing in Injustice's case.

We used to have a trope for that: shortcuts in fiction that are accepted because writers or fans of X or Y genre are used to those shortcuts, but heck if I can remember what it's called.

Edit: Found it. It's Necessary Weasel.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 12th 2023 at 8:57:06 AM

Like how any alternate universe about the Nazis winning World War 2 doesn't need to go into exhaustive detail on HOW the Nazis won World War 2.

It's still the writer's job to maintain suspension of disbelief and the like, not the audiences. Just because the writer believes that X needs no explanation, doesn't mean the audience has to agree.

It it not the writers job to handhold the viewer by explaining absolutely everything in a work, no. As I said, this is something both writers and fans are used to. It's one of the basic concepts that makes both writing and reading alt universe fiction easy and accessible.

I think what we're seeing here instead is a different phenomenon: people are less likely to have suspension of disbelief for works they're not inclined to like in the first place. A la whether or not the Marvel Studios humor and pacing is an issue for a viewer or not: if you're not a fan, you'll be less accepting of those absences that are otherwise there to make it easier for the rest of the audience.

If your issue is specifically that it's a work that has an evil Wonder Woman despite there not being a lot of works with actual positive depictions of the character, then of course you're going to not be particularly accepting of the fact that the work doesn't even explain it - but in a way the bulk of the audience is likely not going to care overmuch about. If you're seeing an evil Wonder Woman, you want to know why you're not seeing a good one because that's your investment in the character.

But Wonder Woman isn't a particularly big part of the Injustice story (she's more Small Role, Big Impact) so it's not really a priority or a necessity for the writer to explain everything about her. As I said, she is the way she is to facilitate and help explain a bigger, far more important and pivotal change: a change which does get far more explanation. Her not being explained is a writers choice, not a writer's mistake, and I can't agree that it's a bad choice given the way the overall story is written.

If this were a Wonder Woman story, I'd agree that she needs more explanation, but the truth is it's not. The most plot Evil Wonder Woman ever gets is that bit where she's used as a foil for Good Wonder Woman in the first game. So I don't really have an issue with Wonder Woman (at least, beyond circa mid-2010's Netherrealm being atrocious at writing female characters) or Cyborg just being a hop and a skip from evil in this universe, or Lex just being a darn nice guy. It happens in alternate universes.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 12th 2023 at 9:26:06 AM

I would say thoughts towards the setting just got more negative over time.

Lotta people are largely sick of its depiction of several characters.

It's why I've seen asking for a reboot being thrown around, more so just to get rid of Regime Superman and the rest of the villain heroes.

I like Injustice. I was sorry to see that Netherrealm skipped its place in the release order, and am looking forward to a new one (hopefully back on the two-year rotating schedule we we get it in 2025).

"But I keep wondering if this is all those people's first time ever experiencing that sort of thing, so they honestly came to the mistaken conclusion that Injustice was actually trying to say that Superman, Wonder Woman, etc are supposed to be this way rather than... well... just being another adaptation, leading to widespread overreactions. "

Because what people are really saying behind all this complains is "what if you scrap all this stuff I dont care about and do a more conventional superhero story that do thing by the numbers?".

That is mostly it but coach in a lot of arguments that boil down to the same thing, many people just plain dont like the central pitch of "Super game focus in a darker and edgier elseworld that stay that way". specially now that injustice 2 just dosent use the same "hero for other universe come to fix this" and instead take the whole thing at face value.

That people want a more strightforward superhero story is not bad(granted, the fact a lot of this is talk about in roundbout said a lot) I will said the WHY is more important: for what I can see is mostly 3 points: Elsewords stories mostly have ether short run or focus in a moment of time that you pull out, is easier to get Justice lords because they serve as story arc for the heroes, not a thing on is own(and injustice is very much "justice lord sping off focusing only them").

Second argument I have seen is that many are quick to adapt or create this edgy interpretation BEFORE doing the most conventional one first, a sort of "Putting the cart before the horse" or rather, having evangelion before mazinger Z or madoka before salior moon or sakura card captor.

Finally the third argument I have seen is simple people are tired and want back to more strightfoward adaptation, a sort of cyclical tropes that most people said "about this, a DC story that is just....your typical hero beat villians" is treated as inovating because when you move too much, going back feel like fresh air.

Injustice is mostly single out because it have being the most popular elseword about evil super and diana and is most trope populizer of evil superman, Sydnerverse was also critized more or less by the same reason before, to the point many think one downright inspired the other.

For a potential Injustice 3

Originally I was hoping for the end of the Regime Superman storyline so we could get a fresh start in 4 with a New variation 'like this take has kinda ran its course lets start another one like get Jerry O'connell for Superman and Bruce Greenwood for Batman!'

but with the death of Kevin Conroy... IDK I feel the Regime needs a capstone before considering it done but it feel kinda wrong not to have Injustice Bats involved.

A look at Injustice 1 and 2

and discussing its nature as a Transmedia project

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I like Wonder Woman.

I mean, she's an evil version of the character, and I appreciate her as such.

I agree with Known Unknown's points. The hatedom of Injustice has bothered me for a while.

Anyway, if Injustice 3 is happening without Kevin Conroy I'm not sure I even want it.

Edited by FOFD on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:22:57 PM

Honestly, one complaint that still seems stupid to me is that Injustice is "proof" that Superman is one bad day away from being a psychopath dictator. These complaints usually ignore that it was a series of events instead of just one "bad day." ", besides the obvious fact that he is an alternate version.

That's the reason I like Wonder Woman, she's a villain from an alternate universe, not a mockery of the character.

Edited by Luisdalas on Oct 28th 2023 at 11:50:46 AM

This Superman in particular isn't as hardened by his experiences with his villains. He's had Lex as support and never fought Brainiac till 2.

Meanwhile main Superman was made stronger in many ways through his hardships. Just look at how he reacted when he thought Manchester killed Lois.

Yeah it is an alternate universe but it lacks power as a 'There but the grace of god go I' scenario if well the only reason they go mad is because they are an AU version and the real version wouldn't even if given the same provocation.

Like Wonder Woman is evil just because she's inherently evil in this situation then that can be fun and fine but it fails an examination of Wonder Woman as an a character. Though as UnknownKnown said it's not like Injustice delves deeply into her character anyway.

But "well we weren't trying for deep characterisation in the first place" isn't much of a defence. Just do a plotless fighting game if the characters don't matter.

Edited by dcutter2 on Oct 28th 2023 at 7:58:02 PM

This was like months ago, but iirc my point was more “she’s a side character, so her circumstances require less explanation than the main characters” than “the characters don’t matter.”

The series similarly doesn’t explain why Lex Luthor is a good guy, for instance. He just is in that universe.

They also ignore that, well, it’s an adaptation. It’s a video game company trying to make a cool but separate version of an existing property. What Netherrealm does doesn’t prove anything any anybody, because what Netherrealm does only matters to the works Netherrealm chooses to do that in.

Heck, they could make a brand new DC fighting game with an entirely new premise tomorrow, and Injustice would only matter to even that if they said it did.

Like, I despise most of what the Arkham series does with Batman and his characters, but I’ve only occasionally had reason to be concerned that series has any effect on the rest of the franchise, so I wouldn’t start condemning the series for proving X or Y character is supposed to be the way it portrays then.

Or in short, Elseworlds gonna Elseworlds.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:29:06 AM

I guess some have more expectations regarding the writing of Injustice Wondy since she's a pretty popular character.

And one part of the DC trinity.

It's an extention of the criticisms against Batman's overt prominence as a character, cause he pretty much comes out looking the best here while Superman and Wonder Woman are turned into total psychos.

And even that probably only hit as hard as it did because DC fans are so memetically combative with each other.

People are obsessed with proving that Batman is better than Superman, or that Superman is better than Batman, or that one or the other needs to be taken down a peg, over and over as nauseum. I blame Battle / Ultimate Showdown culture, really. And Frank Miller.

So some of those fans reacted with “aha! This proves Batman is better!” and other of those fans reacted with “bullshit! They’re just Superman haters trying to prove that Batman is better when he’s not!” and they started endlessly arguing over who was right.

And both were way off base, but were far louder on the internet than cooler and more reasonable takes, so that war-by-proxy dominated the discourse surrounding the game.

I long for the halcyon days of ten-twenty years ago, when a series could want to explore the terrifying possibility of a character going evil, and fans wouldn’t immediately co-opt it as a soldier in their ongoing war to prove one character sucks more than another.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:52:08 AM

Right, at least in the first game you also had the original good Superman and Wonder Woman.

In the second game it was just the out of character version of them, with Batman being the only good member of the trinity.

Wasn't that what caused people to get tired of the Beware the Superman trope? It's why people were so happy with My Adventures with Superman, since it finally gave fans a wholesome Superman again.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 28th 2023 at 5:04:32 AM

Speaking of Wonder Woman, it's kind of strange that in the comics she is on Superman's level, but in the video game she is much weaker than him.

Although this can be considered that in the comics she got an Adaptational Badass, if not because the comics and games are supposed to take place in the same continuity.

Edited by Luisdalas on Oct 28th 2023 at 2:24:37 AM

Other way around. The disdain for Beware the Superman started because the “we need to prove Superman is better” crowd started spreading the narrative that Superman was being unfairly persecuted, and that that trope only targets Superman when it doesn’t.

But like, it’s not like My Adventures With Superman is some kind of novelty of a wholesome Superman series. Wholesome Superman stuff happens all the time, it’s just fans elect to ignore them. Heck, Superman & Lois is on it’s fourth season and is a strong contender for the best adaptation Superman’s ever had.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2023 at 2:31:03 AM