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Helen Goddard

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subzero008 Since: Nov, 2011
#1: May 7th 2012 at 5:25:06 PM

In 2009, 26-year old music teacher was convicted of six counts of sex with a minor, an unnamed 16-year-old girl. An anonymous tip alerted the authorities to this couple, who were arrested at Goddard's flat, in Greenwich, South London. The relationship was consensual, and was in fact initiated by the young girl, not the teacher.

It began with the student merely asking her out to a coffee shop for conversations, etc. It then turned into a full relationship, including a weekend in Paris.

Helen has been given a 15-month stay in jail, and is banned from teaching children for the rest of her life, and is on the sex offender list.

Goddard also happens to be a literal child prodigy in her music, being affectionately referred to as the 'Jazz Lady' by her students, and playing in the 2000 Sydney Olympics at age 17. She has played at Royal Albert Hall for Her Majesty, and has basically accomplished a hell of a lot for age 26.

"They are still in touch. And Goddard punched the air in delight as the judge decided against a five-year ban on further contact."

They reportedly love each other, and Miss Goddard looks like a student herself.

http://sundayposts.blogspot.com/2009/09/curious-case-of-helen-goddard.html In this picture. Yes, that's Miss Goddard.

Oddly enough, in the UK age of consent is 16, but for gay relationships it is 18.

The point of this discussion is whether she should be banned from teaching. The parents are understandably, angry at their deception. She is undeniably guilty— Everybody knows that.

However, I question the judgement of banning her from teaching to children ever again. Her abilities are not questioned; she is a phenomenal teacher. It seems to me, personally, that it is a foolish waste of her prodigal talents to prevent her from passing on her skills.

Anything?

HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#2: May 7th 2012 at 5:43:02 PM

It's a slightly different matter at the collegiate level, although I still personally frown on it. However, as a blanket statement, it is entirely unacceptable for a teacher to enter into a romantic relationship with a current student. Even if the student is of the age of consent, it undermines the professionalism of teachers, teachers should be mentors and sources of knowledge, not potential romantic partners.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Malph (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3: May 7th 2012 at 7:04:38 PM

[up] I agree.

edited 7th May '12 7:04:58 PM by Malph

InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#4: May 7th 2012 at 11:33:48 PM

Teachers are not meant to fuck pupils. They should have waited until a teacher-pupil relationship no longer existed.

Can she be trusted not to do this again at a later date with some other girl? What would happen if the courts said 'yes' but it turned out she could not?

The ban is right.

edited 7th May '12 11:35:37 PM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#5: May 8th 2012 at 4:04:57 AM

That being said, the age of consent should be the same for heterosexual acts and homosexual acts, although personally I'd argue for bumping them both up to 17 or 18.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#6: May 8th 2012 at 4:07:58 AM

It's 16 for both here, as far as I'm aware, though it may not have been at the time. 18 is too old; it would just lead to loads more horny teenagers being charged with a 'rape' that both of them wanted.

edited 8th May '12 4:08:15 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
Lemurian from Touhou fanboy attic Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#7: May 8th 2012 at 4:13:32 AM

I too agree with the Hungry one. The overarching principle that teachers are not supposed to enter romantic relationships with their students is of such a basic and essential nature that you can not simply look away from it because "they are really in love", "the student started it" and "she's a great teacher".

Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!
Talby Since: Jun, 2009
#8: May 8th 2012 at 4:19:42 AM

  • Teachers should not sex up their students
  • The age of consent should be the same regardless of orientation
  • Helen Goddard is pretty hot

I think that covers everything.

TenTailsBeast The Ultimate Lifeform from The Culture Since: Feb, 2012
#9: May 8th 2012 at 4:20:44 AM

[up][up]Eh, not too big rules for the sake of rules. Rules should be there for a good reason, yet we need to remember that it's not always going to be perfect for the situation. I think the principle that's most important is context.

edited 8th May '12 4:20:58 AM by TenTailsBeast

I vowed, and so did you: Beyond this wall- we would make it through.
FarseerLolotea from America's Finest City Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#10: May 8th 2012 at 4:26:18 AM

Great big can of worms. I'm gonna agree with Talby and leave it at that.

Lemurian from Touhou fanboy attic Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#11: May 8th 2012 at 4:28:20 AM

^^^ [/thread]

^^ The rule is not simply there "for the sake of rules". It is there to ensure the teacher's professionalism, the integrity of the educational system and the trust that the parents have to the persons that they leave their children and young adults in the hands of for the sake of providing them with a good education. That is the context one should have in mind, not the feelings of the parties involved.

edited 8th May '12 4:28:38 AM by Lemurian

Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#12: May 8th 2012 at 4:37:33 AM

The point of this discussion is whether she should be banned from teaching.
I'm sorry, but I think that she should be. A phenomenal teacher she may be; but what she did was a massive breach of work ethics.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#13: May 8th 2012 at 4:51:36 AM

Not to mention even if the abuse of a position of authority it implies is not the case, we still have a relationship that makes it very hard for the teacher to be impartial in judgements for grades or discipline, and if the relationship goes sour, the same issues crop up but more pronounced.

You don't ever really want romantic relationships between authority figures and subordinates, this is just as true for students and teachers as for soldiers and officers, although the stakes are rather higher for the latter.

I wish the two happiness in their relationship, although a 10 year age gap seems big to me, but I believe that Ms. Goddard made a decision that necessitates consequences.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#14: May 8th 2012 at 5:08:52 AM

That's one hot ephebophile, that's for sure. I agree with Talby.

LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#15: May 8th 2012 at 5:12:42 AM

Just so long as we're clear that the attractiveness or lack thereof of a teacher has no bearing on the crime. tongue

Be not afraid...
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#16: May 8th 2012 at 5:14:22 AM

Are you seriously implying that beautiful people are as faulty as ugly people when it comes to this? Heresy!

HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#17: May 8th 2012 at 5:25:34 AM

I mean, legality aside, at 16 anybody interested in women would have an easy time sympathizing for the minor.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#18: May 8th 2012 at 5:29:16 AM

... Nah, I don't really buy that. No matter how attractive a person of the opposite sex is, you don't suddenly lose your ability to reason through consequences. The student should not have pushed for a relationship - if nothing else, look at the trouble they're both in now.

Be not afraid...
HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#19: May 8th 2012 at 5:35:22 AM

If 16 year old Joe thought he could get away with it, and somehow had the confidence, he would've.

He would've been cool legally in the UK. But 16 year old Joe would still have been a 16 year old and therefore probably less qualified to make a decision like this than when he was 10 and not blinded by a haze of hormones.

But that's just me.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#20: May 8th 2012 at 5:45:03 AM

No matter how attractive a person of the opposite sex is, you don't suddenly lose your ability to reason through consequences.

You don't get out much, do you?

People do exactly that all the time. That's partly why there are now 7 billion of us...

edited 8th May '12 5:45:45 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#21: May 8th 2012 at 5:48:05 AM

They don't lose it, they just cover their ears and go "LALALALALALALA!!!"

edited 8th May '12 5:48:27 AM by kay4today

Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#22: May 8th 2012 at 5:48:07 AM

I get the impression that much of the "teenagers are blinded by hormones" idea is due to cultural expectations more than to anything else.

But in any case, Goddard was 26 years old. She should definitely have known better.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#23: May 8th 2012 at 5:52:38 AM

If every teenager lost their ability to reason through consequences and were blinded by hormones I'm fairly sure there would be more rape in this world. tongue

HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#24: May 8th 2012 at 5:56:55 AM

I think that's actually the cause for quite a bit of it.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#25: May 8th 2012 at 6:02:03 AM

I don't really think so. It's more like letting them take over.

edited 8th May '12 6:03:22 AM by kay4today


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