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Banning of the use of the term "Loli", just asking for a clarification

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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
Apr 29th 2012 at 2:58:36 PM

As I understand it, "loli" is fan-speak for "fictionalized caricature of a prebuscent girl's body that is designed to cater to paedophiles". You'll find that it's actually noticeably distinct from more innocent depictions of children. Compare the little girls in Historys Strongest Disciple Kenichi to Kyon's sister, for example, or any underage kid in a Ghibli movie.

Of course it's dehumanizing, that's because "loli" characters designs aren't supposed to be like anything human at all. They are to children like dolls are to babies. They're walking, talking fantasies.

And of course, it's possible for a character to look like a "loli" without actually being one. In both To Aru Majutsu No Index, Batman The Animated Series, and Medaka Box, there are old, mature women, over thirty, who look like "lolis", but the paedo is denied their fanservice by virtue of them being empowered, self-responsible, adult people, Fake Cutie mannerisms aside.

I think that, under this definition, it should be entirely possible to use the term "loli", without risking getting banned. Basically "loli" is "a character designed in a paedohsit style". A character who merely "looks like a loli" is one that only has the outward appearance of being one, but subverts it in one way or another.

So, yes, for the sake of practicality, I would very much like to be able to use the term "loli" in a detached, clinical sense, without having to worry about a ban-hammer. This request came out more strongly-worded than I would have liked, but please understand that, if you choose to risk erring on the side of caution rather than the opposite, I shall accept it without insisting any further.

edited 29th Apr '12 2:59:47 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Apr 29th 2012 at 3:24:39 PM

I'd rather not see the term used anywhere because I find it really annoying.

Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Apr 29th 2012 at 3:28:39 PM

Why would you want to even discuss that kind of thing?

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Apr 29th 2012 at 3:31:50 PM

Err on the side of caution.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
ThatHuman someone from someplace
someone
Apr 29th 2012 at 3:33:28 PM

@ Handle: I think this quote, commenting on the source of the term explains why it's so bad:

(...)"Lolita" was always the creation of Humbert's craven self.... The Siren-like Humbert sings a song of himself, to himself, and titles that self and that song "Lolita." ... To transform Dolores into Lolita, to seal this sad adolescent within his musky self, Humbert must deny her her humanity. [1]

But, your post already describes why the term is so creepy:

Of course it's dehumanizing, that's because "loli" characters designs aren't supposed to be like anything human at all. They are to children like dolls are to babies. They're walking, talking fantasies.

edited 29th Apr '12 3:33:46 PM by ThatHuman

something
Parable So I Am from California Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
So I Am
Apr 29th 2012 at 3:37:40 PM

A lot of people use the term loli as a catchall for "young girl" with nothing sexual about it. Touhou is often referred to as the "game with flying lolis" even though 9/10 of the characters are clearly adults or late teens.

Apr 29th 2012 at 3:45:38 PM

[up]Well, obviously that use is unacceptable, I think: reducing all young girls to "lolitas" is an act of dehumanization,.and an incredibly tacless, tasteless one to boot.

But using it in the original sense, "a paedo''s fantasies projected, forced, pushed, crammed, unto a lifelike form", should be allowed. The reality exists, and it should be named. Its misuse, on the other hand, should be punished for great justice, and I say this without irony.

But that's just my opinion.

Apr 29th 2012 at 3:58:37 PM

I started using the term loli in the way Parable described long before I realized it was a reference to Lolita, and it just became a habit for me. A lot of people honestly do not know that it isn't a catch-all term for all cartoon little girls.

Well, I don't mind restricting the term to the other definition as long as it's clearly outlined in the rules.

edited 29th Apr '12 3:59:46 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode
Parable So I Am from California Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:05:04 PM

"A lot of people use the term loli as a catchall for "young girl" with nothing sexual about it."

Well those people would be wrong because the term always carries a sexual connotation. If you want to say "little girl", just say "little girl" and not sound like a creep.

"You" of course being the general "you" and not any specific person.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:08:06 PM by KaiserMazoku

Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams
Oh My
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:18:41 PM

Loli and lolita also refer to a type of fashion. This is generally how I use it.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:18:52 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:30:50 PM

"a lot of people" DO NOT use that word to just refer to little girls. A specific fandom demographic uses it that way, and it makes them look like a bunch of awful creeps. Nobody outside the anime fandom uses the word for little girls.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:33:35 PM

I've seen "loli" used on a lot of different sites simply as a term for female child characters, it's used as shorthand for "female child character".

Because it's easier to write "loli" then "female child character".

Yes, it's an anime fandom term, I hardly think it makes anyone who uses it a creep.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:34:41 PM

A lot of different otaku sites, I'm sure.

I didn't say using the word makes you a creep. It makes you sound like a creep. Now that all of you know that, stop using it so people who aren't otaku won't think you're a creep. Very simple.

Oh, and it's also easier to type "bitches" rather than "female characters." But if I did that, I'd sound like a stupid sexist dickcheese.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:38:17 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:35:50 PM

"I hardly think it makes anyone who uses it a creep."

It makes anyone who uses it look like a creep. (Particularly, to people who aren't part of the anime fandom but know the word origin).

edited 29th Apr '12 4:38:54 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:41:03 PM

"Because it's easier to write "loli" then "female child character"."

Just because something's easier doesn't mean it's right.

Apr 29th 2012 at 4:43:56 PM

[up][up][up] That's a pretty strawman argument. In any case, to anyone new to anime fandom and who doesn't know the origin of the word loli (The knowledge isn't exactly common sense), the term sounds like Gratuitous Japanese like shota. Therefore, they adopt it into their speech and think that it's innocuous.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:44:23 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode
ThatHuman someone from someplace
someone
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:44:14 PM

It's just tapping a keyboard. For most of us, to type "little girl" or whatever isn't all that hard in and of itself.

[up] Well, those people are rather ignorant, then.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:44:44 PM by ThatHuman

something
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:45:50 PM

Good old Hanlon's Razor.

Besides, as far as I know, the term isn't bleeped out on television. Loli being a bad word just isn't common sense.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:47:51 PM by encrypted12345

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Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:47:20 PM

It's not Hanlon's Razor anymore once the offender knows the connotations of the word I refuse to type. And what I said was pretty fucking far from a strawman. In fact, it was a pretty close parallel.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Chariot King of Anime
King of Anime
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:54:47 PM

[up][up]

No that is a stupid way of thinking. Words change over time and since most people use it to either describe young girls in general or the more sexual meaning banning the use outright is ridiculous when we can ban using the second meaning of it but allow the use of the former meaning.

AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:55:55 PM

Um... the definition I know is a fanspeak word for female child characters. Which is hardly offensive, unless you think female children are offensive.

In fact, here's something of a parallel: "Bitch" didn't used to be offensive. It was used to refer to a female dog. And now, it's become a swear word.

Some people used "loli" for something disturbing, but that meaning's pretty much died and and loli has become a word used in place of "female child character".

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:56:24 PM

[up][up][up][up] Um, bitches is censored when broadcast on television. Loli is not. Mostly because the latter isn't nearly as well known among those who aren't in the anime fandom, and those in the anime fandom misuse it.

[up][up][up] The trope did need to be gender neutral, and if it does offend people that much, I don't mind the change. I didn't know the term was offensive at all before people complained that much.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:56:43 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode
Apr 29th 2012 at 4:58:14 PM

Using obscenity that is banned from the radio and network television while complaining about the use of allegedly offensive terms by other people is quite ironic.


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