So, this is a thread for newbies to the Game Of Thrones universe to discuss the show without running the risk of being spoiled.
And that's any kind of spoiler, btw, even the "wait and see" kind of spoiler. Everyone should post here if they want to, just be mindful of what you're saying people.
So. Queef of Darkness, amiright? Holy shit the ending to that episode was amazing.
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edited 8th May '14 11:32:59 AM by Madrugada
And then the script ends up saying that he doesn't actually love his family as much as her and immediately regrets doing it for them.
Won't forgive Sansa for betrayal, especially as she did it before a Godswood tree and made a vow to never tell anyone to him THAT THEY MADE A DELETED SCENE and it says a lot about where their priorities lie.
And the problem is that Dany being "the abuser" happens in the last couple of episodes and makes no sense. She hasn't done anything to "abuse" Jon so it comes across as nonsensical.
Uneven relationships exist sure, but they aren't abusive in themselves. Not unless you're a walking Yes-Man.
Which is the problem, none of it makes a damn bit of sense, and they wanted to make Dany as monstrous as possible to make Jon and Tyrion(Whose Character Derailment has been ongoing since killing his dad) sympathetic for murdering her. They didn't care about Dany's character or how the act never makes sense with her. It's all about making the men feel bad for killing her.
Not to mention they have to, essentially, have everyone actively work to drive Dany insane to prove their claims she's mad right.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Nov 1st 2019 at 5:35:07 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.If you read the thread, yeah, it does make sense for Jaime to kill Dany... he was once an idealist like Sansa, then he was plunged into King’s Landing, killed Aerys to save the city, lost his honor in everyone’s eyes, etc.... and then Dany burns down the whole city. Because of her father’s wildfire. Tragic accident from her point of view, Targaryen madness from Jaime’s point of view. Jaime killing her (and dying in the process) brings him full circle.
Edited by wisewillow on Nov 1st 2019 at 11:10:21 AM
Which would redeem him. Redeeming him is not what is being tried for with Jaime. His arc is closer to an addict that tried to escape but realized he couldn't in the end.
Summary.
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The addict arc (ehhhh wouldn’t say it’s cohesive enough to work) was a tv choice. It’s not accurate to where the books left off, and alternative choices are valid.
It’s not about redemption. It’s about Jaime’s internal sense of what he should do, even though he’s a crappy person in many ways.
Edited by wisewillow on Nov 1st 2019 at 3:37:30 AM
@wise It's not a linear arc. Look at where Daenerys leaves off at the end of ASOS verus ADWD.
ASOS! Daenerys decides to stay in Meereen to rule the society and ADWD! Daenerys came away with the idea that she made a mistake.
Like Dany, Jaime doesn't have a linear arc. Eventually, he'll return to Cersei.
Dany achieved her goals, which was to free slaves, which was always more important in her eyes in the TV series than the books. Lindsay said it best, these were not the characters that were written in the books, and she even points out there's a logical conclusion to Dany reaching that point in the Books. Especially with Griff being the one likely to rule in Cerseis stead. Because Cersei suffers no repercussions for things the shownhad show did have a price to pay, to keep her on the throne to make Dany crazy.
This is why the whole rebuttal of people rationalizing tyranny is what's been going on for ages doesn't work, because the Starks have done just as much fucked up shit, as Lindsay herself points out. From killing an entire family and feeding the sons of their head to him(Who can blame Arya? They were evil men), to Sansa feeding the man who raped her to his dogs(who can blame her? He's have done worse to her)
And these are explicitly framed as empowering moments because they "aren't like other girls".
Since these aren't in the books, it contextualizes a Double Standard the Starks are allowed to have that others are not.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Nov 1st 2019 at 4:18:00 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.And you know what? The script actually addressed it, but Jaime had to "emote" the feelin of guilt instead. Because Jaime was supposed to feel guilty for sleeping with Brienne. Which, uh, good luck seeing that!
Which hampers these points since it never shows in the show itself. The fact the script has to be required just to answer some things about the plot is not good.
Cersei's deleted miscarriage makes her instability and blind refusal to the end make even more sense in S8.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Nov 1st 2019 at 4:50:09 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.Edited by alliterator on Nov 1st 2019 at 6:29:16 AM
I agree, but there's more and more things that they have them try to "emote" via faces and so they don't have the characters talk. Which makes it even more obvious where some problems lie. The fact the dialogue rapidly decreased only enforces just how bad of an idea this is.
Though granted, it keeps Tyrion from saying dumb stuff like Liberation Theology, so we're screwed no matter what.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Nov 1st 2019 at 6:50:57 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.Sure, we shouldn't have to be spoonfed all the important exposition stuff, but facial dialogue doesn't carry the day 100%. (Of course, there are some more films that have proven effective even when they have minimal dialogue in parts, like the end to Road to Perdition).
Okey Dokey!Yeah, Misery Poker isn't a fun game to play. No one wins.
And, even if you go down that path, with SO MANY character arcs fucked over, they kind of bumped into each other like a shitty Domino train; X's character arc couldn't be good because Y's arc already got fucked up. Brinne getting screwed over because Jamie's arc went off the rails being an off hand example.

Jaime killing her is the exact opposite of what is being shot for. There’s no conflict for Jaime.
Narratively, I can why see why it has to be Jon that kills her because of the internal conflict where he has two different impulses at war with each other. His family and his lover. The Starks or the Targaryens. Love or duty.
I get the framing of a man killing his girlfriend reminds people of domestic abuse buuuut in this case, Daenerys is actually the abuser. She holds the power and is the one that’s toxic/controlling toward Jon.
But the optics are really bad especially in D & D’s stupid hands.
I'm not a fan of the whole thing but I can see what the idea is.
Edited by MadSkillz on Nov 2nd 2019 at 9:10:03 AM