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So, this is a thread for newbies to the Game Of Thrones universe to discuss the show without running the risk of being spoiled.

And that's any kind of spoiler, btw, even the "wait and see" kind of spoiler. Everyone should post here if they want to, just be mindful of what you're saying people.

So. Queef of Darkness, amiright? Holy shit the ending to that episode was amazing.

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Anyone who posts book spoilers in this thread or corrects, confirms, or josses theories with book knowledge will get their post thumped. Non-book people, feel free to holler a post (little yellow triangle button) if it happens.

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edited 8th May '14 11:32:59 AM by Madrugada

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:15:41 AM

He's saying that to be a ruler in GOT, you would need to first be a violent conqueror.

Basically, the kind of people who shouldn't rule are likely the ones that can get into power.

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:16:47 AM

Some can do both. But as we’ve seen, Dany’s attempts at ruling have been.... not good.

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:16:57 AM

I am a big Daenerys fan, and I feel that this episode lent too negatively against her. I mean she's doing what all the other characters do, but somehow there's this double standard when she does it. She gave Randyll Tarly many chances to bend the knee and he continued being insubordinate, she offered the wall, and he said no. That's more or less what Jon Snow did to janos slynt, but Jon executing Janos for insubordination is all badass, but not when she does it. C'mon. I hope they don't try and make Sam into that annoying Olly kid and so on. And I don't get why this idea that a good king is someone who refuses a crown...Isn't that what Robert's own story was about?

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:20:27 AM

Dany burned a ton of food when she was fighting the Tarlys.

Personally, this bothered me way more than her executing the Tarly lords. The son seemed like a good kid, but with those tons and tons of characters... I'm more invested in small folk.

Edited by XFllo on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:26:37 AM

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:20:27 AM

She burnt a ton of food that will be desperately needed. She threatened Sansa with death twice for being unenthused about a random stranger bringing more mouths to feed. She fights for the throne of a land whose people she does not know because it is “hers.”

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:24:39 AM

It was Randyll Tarly who at Cersei's command betrayed his feudal lord (and Dany's sworn ally) and despoiled his own countryside and his people's stores to serve Cersei. So it's not like that was her fault there.

And again an army of the dead is approaching, she is going to attack and battle them, and that means making a stand at the North. Everyone knows that. She is doing this to help them, unless they want to be the well-fed and well-rationed undead.

Edited by Revolutionary_Jack on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:25:31 AM

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:25:41 AM

Arya- 5’1

Dany- 5’2

Cersei- 5’5

Jon Snow- 5’8

Theon- 5’9

Jaime- 6’2

Yeah, short group.

Darn it. The only people I like are Arya and Dany now.

[up][up] And as Sam said, what's she going to do when she finds out what's "her's" really isn't in any sense of the word.

Edited by Parable on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:26:09 AM

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:27:19 AM

The question is is it wise and right for Sam to try and poison and corrupt Jon with ambition and stuff, all out of revenge. Jon doesn't want to be King, and now Sam says he was King the whole time, and is trying to get him to turn at Dany out of revenge, when again he knows that Dany is needed to defeat the White Walkers.

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:27:47 AM

[up][up][up] Burning all the food instead of taking it to feed her own people is absolutely her fault, and an incredibly stupid decision. If you defeat the undead and then starve to death that’s not great either.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:28:38 AM

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:31:03 AM

And again an army of the dead is approaching, she is going to attack and battle them, and that means making a stand at the North. Everyone knows that. She is doing this to help them, unless they want to be the well-fed and well-rationed undead.

Oh, come on. I think it's cool of her to fight for the living and providing her dragons and her armies, but her approach makes me feel she would not be doing it had Jon not bent the knee.

Everyone knows that the undead don't need food (or sleep or to keep warm), but without food, everyone will become undead up north eventually, no?

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:34:43 AM

Oh, come on. I think it's cool of her to fight for the living and providing her dragons and her armies, but her approach makes me feel she would not be doing it had Jon not bent the knee.

The Glovers aren't doing it at all. And Dany saved Jon's life before he bent the knee. And she was quite taken aback and surprised when he had done so. Jon "doesn't do anything by half" is the super-loyalist here.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:38:53 AM

I don't think Sansa is displeased that there are more fighters, just that there's no way to sustain them.

It's honestly not lack of food that would kill them first, I suspect, but lack of medicine. There's four armies present (Unsullied, Northern (including Wildlings), Dothraki, and Vale) all packed into a single city-fortress. That's a plague waiting to happen. Maybe not in a fantasy setting, but realistically, people from all over the world packed into a single walled fort is the world's largest petri dish. I hope there really is something to the Lord of Light, because they'd need his grace to stay healthy.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:41:21 AM

Regarding Danaerys I have only this to say. If she had a single drop less ambition than she does, she wouldn't be a conquering queen trying to reclaim her ancestral kingdom. She'd be a dead slave somewhere.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:42:00 AM

And that’s comforting to all the people she’s burned alive because... ?

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:44:18 AM

Realistically talking about weak food is one thing, doing it publicly in an open forum and bashing your guest who is there to save your ass is, A) Obnoxious, B) Rude, C) Inane. And it's insubordinate. As a vassal, you aren't supposed to give lip to your royal guest. Edmure Tully got called out for that by Brynden Tully when he tried to be familiar with King Robb in Season 3, but when Dany complains, that's somehow wrong...again double standard towards men and women in power.

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:45:35 AM

Vassal? Sansa didn’t agree to that. The rest of the North didn’t agree to that. Jon did, even though he technically didn't have to, and he didn’t ask anyone else’s opinion.

She’s in her own house talking to a very self-impressed Targaryen who appears to have brought lots of people and no food. Sorry she wasn’t obsequious enough for your taste.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:49:46 AM

Apr 15th 2019 at 8:50:18 AM

According to feudal rules, Sansa is Jon's subordinate. If he knelt then so did everyone else. She has to fall in line.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:50:52 AM

The King in the North agreed to it. To chastise his guest is to rebuke him as well. Sansa isn't wrong, she's simply rude.

And yes, the world grieves for the loss of slavers, Lannisters, and Tarlys to dragonfire. Let's shit on Danaerys because the people she fought and in some cases executed all need comfort.

Edited by blkwhtrbbt on Apr 15th 2019 at 10:52:10 AM

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:50:54 AM

Jon only has Winterfell because of Sansa.

Dany has burned lots of people who were common folk fighting for their masters/lords. Pardon me for not finding this inspiring. And also burned food supplies that were desperately needed. Dany fights for no one but herself and her “right” to the throne.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:52:55 AM

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:53:11 AM

And? This makes her able to fight the army of the undead without allies?

[up]yeah, food in Cersei's hands would have been absolutely crucial to her enemy's war effort. And it's always easy to tell what the contents of a closed container are. Also, why is killing troops with a dragon so much worse than killing troops any other way? She's at war and those people took up arms against her. She very much allowed them to surrender, and spared them with their lands and titles intact when they did. That's a lot more than most of her contemporaries already. Sansa was calling for child lords to be deposed based on the offenses of their older relatives.

Edited by blkwhtrbbt on Apr 15th 2019 at 10:57:28 AM

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:55:49 AM

Regarding Danaerys I have only this to say. If she had a single drop less ambition than she does, she wouldn't be a conquering queen trying to reclaim her ancestral kingdom. She'd be a dead slave somewhere.

What was good in one place at one time isn't always good in another place and time.

I'm not particularly concerned with what happened to the Tarly's but the North is another story. She's on shaky grounds up there because Jon was always on shaky grounds. He was made king by acclamation of the North's leaders and as far as they seem to be concerned, they can revoke that if they want. The minute he left the lords started grumbling and offering Sansa the crown. Now he's brought in a new leader - who by name and by "outsider" cred they are inclined to dislike - without their advice or consent, one who hasn't given any indication she cares about their advice or consent for that matter.

All of this is a more ideal scenario would be swept aside with the White Walker menace upon them, but it isn't upon them just yet - unless you're that poor Umber kid - so they've got time to play Game of Thrones: Northern Expansion Pack.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Apr 15th 2019 at 8:59:17 AM

Sansa has been snippy, but hasn't outright flouted or undermined Dany in any meaningful or tangible way. Dany isn't going to execute her for that. So far, I see some bristling and flaring tempers, but I honestly doubt there's going to be any real infighting

If we're going to argue that Dany is a monster for killing enemies with dragonfire, let's also argue that the Night's Watch are monsters for locking the entire population of the True North in a frozen wasteland where 1) they had to scratch a living off rocks and ice in the best of times and 2) they had ice demons breathing down their necks the whole time.

when they wanted south, there was no negotiation, no reasonable discussion. Just "YOU SHALL NOT PASS".

Edited by blkwhtrbbt on Apr 15th 2019 at 11:04:14 AM

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Apr 15th 2019 at 9:03:44 AM

Isn't Ned Umber's death Jon's fault, or unintended consequence anyway. He gave that castle to the kid, said kid was dispatched to defend it, and presto...no more Umbers.

Apr 15th 2019 at 9:05:03 AM

Most of her antagonism has been venting at Jon in private. Which honestly is part of her job. She's telling him what the North as a whole is feeling since she has a better feel for the pulse of the kingdom than he does.

[up] Jon didn't give it to him, he let him keep it. And they told the kid to evacuate it. He just had the bad luck of not having enough transports and being slower than the White Walkers. If it wasn't him, then it would have been some other hapless sucker.

Edited by Parable on Apr 15th 2019 at 9:08:31 AM


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