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Duplicate Trope: Bishounen vs. Pretty Boy

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TropeEater That One Troper from the depths of Hell Since: Mar, 2012
That One Troper
#1: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:17:46 AM

I'm not normally a Lumper, but I looked at this, and noticed that there is not really a difference in how those tropes are used.

I think the "Pretty Boy" one should get fused to the "Bishounen" one, simply because the latter is more complete, (i.e., has an image, more than three paragraphs of text, et cetera).

And even if there is a difference, I'm uncomfortable with the fact that Bishounen can only be in Japanese media and can never be in Animesque Western media.

*******I know these pages were separated as a compromise between the Anime fans and the non-Anime fans, but I don't see how fusing them will be favoritistic to anyone. Can't we just kiss and make up? Well... That Came Out Wrong, but you get the idea.*******

edited 23rd Apr '12 9:18:01 AM by TropeEater

   Evil is my favorite color.   
emeriin Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:21:25 AM

Bishōnen has a distinct look though; feminine, tall and pretty young. Pretty Boy can be used for the rest of the attractive guys, from the pouty-lipped Jensen Ackles, to the crotch that is Jareth.

lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#3: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:27:05 AM

Animesque is allowed, I believe, as long as you explain that the work is imitating or strongly influenced by Asian media (e.g., OEL manga). The current system was put in place by Fast Eddie himself and would probably require his go-ahead to change.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#4: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:28:05 AM

[up][up] Yep Bishonen tend to look a specific way tall, thin, not muscular, pretty, well groomed etc. They can get long hair but not always.

If anything Bishonen is just an anime specific stereotype / standards subtrope of Pretty Boy.

edited 23rd Apr '12 11:32:49 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#5: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:39:02 AM

I think that Pretty Boy does need a little more fleshing out to avoid confusion. In the West, there is a cut-off where a male can be too pretty/androgynous to be considered attractive. Eastern works don't seem to have that. It's also okay in the West for a Pretty Boy to have facial hair (particularly perma stubble) and some muscular definition.

I'd say an anime-esque work should be able to list a character as Bishōnen if it fits that trope better.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
TropeEater That One Troper from the depths of Hell Since: Mar, 2012
That One Troper
#6: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:43:02 AM

So... we should make Bishounen a subtrope of Pretty Boy?

I think that's a good idea.

   Evil is my favorite color.   
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#7: Apr 23rd 2012 at 11:33:39 AM

I am not opposed to that at all.

I thought that was what this was intended to be in the last thread but appears incomplete.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#8: Apr 23rd 2012 at 11:41:00 AM

I could live with making Bishounen a Sub-Trope of Pretty Boy, but personally I think it's more of a Sister Trope; they both cover a fairly large range but they're centered on different points. As I pointed out elsewhere, in the West Pretty Boy exists in opposition to The Hunk, but in the East Bishounen pretty much rules supreme, at least for female-oriented pop culture.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
TropeEater That One Troper from the depths of Hell Since: Mar, 2012
That One Troper
#9: May 3rd 2012 at 5:12:00 PM

You know, this keeps bothering me, so I'm going to bump this thread and create a crowner.

[up] It seems like Bishounen is more specific then pretty boy to me, though.

edited 3rd May '12 5:22:44 PM by TropeEater

   Evil is my favorite color.   
abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#10: May 3rd 2012 at 7:13:12 PM

Right now, Pretty Boy's description basically just says "boy who is pretty," so Bishonen should count as a subtrope.

Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#12: May 4th 2012 at 12:20:37 PM

I'm assuming that when we say "Anime specific" we realy mean "Japanese Media specific"?

lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#13: May 4th 2012 at 12:36:25 PM

I think in general, unless it's agreed by all the system is broken, there should be a "no-change" option on this kind of crowner.

I still think the difference between Pretty Boy and Bishounen is primarily cultural, but in any case trying to define the difference in strictly physical terms is going to be a hassle; people differ greatly over where "pretty" becomes "feminine" and a lot of people will want to move characters out of the "feminine" category because they don't like classifying their favorite action-guy as feminine.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Vidor Since: Nov, 2009
#14: May 4th 2012 at 1:11:10 PM

Deleted post.

edited 4th May '12 1:39:04 PM by Vidor

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#15: May 8th 2012 at 11:20:17 AM

Calling crowner.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
TropeEater That One Troper from the depths of Hell Since: Mar, 2012
That One Troper
#16: May 8th 2012 at 1:38:21 PM

This space has been intentionally left blank

edited 8th May '12 1:40:08 PM by TropeEater

   Evil is my favorite color.   
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#17: May 16th 2012 at 10:54:45 AM

OK, so any thoughts on how to frame the subtrope distinction? Just "sleekly androgynous, femininely attractive guys" as in the crowner?

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#18: Jun 19th 2012 at 7:50:52 AM

Any progress here?

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#19: Jun 19th 2012 at 11:22:21 AM

I'm confused as to what actually won here. Supertrope has more votes, but sibling-tropes has a higher ratio of yes to no.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#20: Jul 31st 2012 at 1:35:04 PM

I called it as the top one winning, so...

edited 31st Jul '12 1:35:31 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#21: Oct 10th 2012 at 1:28:28 AM

Meh, not enough interest here. Locking.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
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PageAction: PrettyBoy
3rd May '12 5:17:36 PM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

Total posts: 21
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