Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread
) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
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- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
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- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
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- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.
As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
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Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread
.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here
, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin
as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
- If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread
.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM
Oof, the Real Life section of Name of Cain is a mess. It feels weird to trope people's given names to begin with. Doing it with morality tropes just feels wrong.
And name tropes like Aerith and Bob are already NRLEP, as previously mentioned
I'm not certain Name of Cain is Morality per se, but I would say Characterization - A "Cain" is, if not evil, at least powerful or aggressive. More relevantly it's Too Common - "Cain/Caine/Kane" aren't terribly uncommon surnames, they're more exotic as a first name but still Too Common to be worth troping as "[Person] has this name".
I mean... I'd say this is actually definitely a morality trope, it's all about how people named "Cain" or a variant are dangerous and evil.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
Name of Cain is a storytelling sign that someone is evil/bad news because they are named Cain.
Yeah, Name of Cain is definitely morality. It's a trope of judgements and generalizations, not of specific actions.
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.Talkative Loon is probably Gossip and definitely Characterization.
The Real-Life folder of Athens and Sparta is stepping into ROCEJ territory (i.e., controversial) because comparisons of real countries are present.
Edited by ElRise on Aug 5th 2023 at 1:36:15 AM
Graffiti WallIf it's cut, the stuff about Athens and Sparta (which as of now is basically just a ZCE anyway) should probably be elaborated on a bit in the description.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
I'd say it's Characterization along the lines of Red Oni, Blue Oni (a "Round Human Square Archetype" grouping trope) on a civilization scale.
I'd say it'd be more straightforward to just link to the Useful Notes page Ancient Greece.
I mean... that's already linked. The reason I'd want to discuss Athens and Sparta in the description is because they're the trope namer and having even the basic information about them could be a good idea. No reason to force people to go to the Useful Notes page.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallAgreed on Name of Cain being morality and Athens and Sparta being a stereotype, but the latter could use a brief bit in the description or possibly an Analysis page regarding how said Ancient Greek cities became synonymous with Jock v. Nerd on a civilization scale.
Becoming the Mask is attracting poor examples, most of which belong on Lost in Character. From my understanding of the descriptions, LIC is the proper choice for actors or other folks putting on fictions that they know are fictional, BTM is for folks who are putting on cons etc. which result in those around them legitimately believing they are whatever they they claim to be and that rubbing off on them, and its page could use serious cleanup. I don't think it warrants crownering, though, since most of these can just be moved or cut entirely and the remaining ones are unproblematic and historical. Here's my assessment of the examples:
- Some tribal cultures have rituals in which a mask causes the wearer to become the god or spirit it represents. — general. If given more detail, would belong on Mythology and Religion. Also, this is closer to the literal Becoming the Costume.
- This is especially true in topeng, the art of Balinese masked dance-drama. The mask is extremely important, and the actor must consecrate him/herself and prepare carefully for any masked role.
- And here you have the origin of theatre and method acting. — Unnecessary natter sub-bullet, also not the case. All theater worldwide doesn't have a single cultural origin.
- C. S. Lewis said in the preface to "Screwtape Proposes a Toast" that while lots of people requested a sequel to The Screwtape Letters, for the longest time he refused to write one because even though the original book was the easiest thing to write that he had ever produced in his life, it was a horrific and stifling experience to have to make himself think like Screwtape and basically become a demon. — Do authors count for Lost in Character?
- Lalla Ward once said in a Doctor Who Magazine interview that the reason she and Tom Baker got married was because they played the Doctor and Romana Like an Old Married Couple, and then mistook that for actually being in love. — I'm not sure where the line is between Lost in Character and Becoming the Mask here, since it doesn't refer to them becoming their fictionalized characters as opposed to the emotional dynamic? I'd like more input on this.
- Method Acting is all about Becoming The Mask (or the character) for a role. — This whole section is Lost in Character.
- Peter Sellers had said on numerous occasions "There is no 'Me'; I do not exist." As an actor, he became his role and often had a hard time shaking it off afterward. — zero context.
- Robert De Niro is said to do this, "disappearing" into his roles. — zero context.
- Robin Williams stayed in character off set until whatever film he was working on had wrapped. When he performed the chilling lead role in One Hour Photo, his wife was so upset she told him she would divorce him if he took another role like that.
- Hugh Laurie really did develop soreness in his back and leg from constantly limping in his role as Dr. Greg House... though this is slightly different, since it actually does stress the body to force it to move unnaturally, and especially so because House uses the cane on the wrong side. He also kept the accent even when flubbing lines.
- Christian Bale did interviews for the Batman movies in the same accent that he uses in the movies to avoid those who don't know his other works. Pretty jarring during the MTV Movie Awards when he spoke to Brandon Routh using his natural accent.
- Similarly, Bale spoke with an American accent during his infamous rant on the set of Terminator Salvation.
- Andy Kaufman was a vegan in real life but ate meat when portraying the Jerkass lounge singer Tony Clifton because Clifton ate meat.
- Daniel Whitney, aka Larry the Cable Guy has started falling into this according to his friends. Larry was initially just one personality in Whitney's stand-up routine, but quickly became the entire show, and according to said friends, Whitney has been gradually taking in more and more of Larry's mannerisms over the years. Even when playing characters other than Larry (such as Mater) he asks to be credited as "Larry the Cable Guy" as opposed to Daniel Whitney.
- Heath Ledger may have done this before his death, production staff mention that the long hours tapped into the mind of one of the most chaotically insane people in media made him a different person, and it's believed drove him to madness and suicide. However, this is deemed unlikely based on testimony from other production staff and associates, and it was far more likely that it was an accident due to job stress.
- Amusingly, a number of fans joke that Ryan Reynolds no longer exists, and he should now be regarded as Deadpool.
- Similarly, Robert Downey Jr. quipped that his wife was now somewhat disgruntled to find herself married to Tony Stark, though after he left the role he made it quite clear that while he enjoyed the role, he is not Tony Stark.
- Daniel Day-Lewis got extremely committed to the roles he played prior to his retirement, particularly villainous roles, that some actors or directors got alienated and were unwilling to work with him in the future. After a particularly intense day on the set of Gangs of New York, fellow actor Liam Neeson told Lewis "My god, man! Why don't you try acting?!"
- Austin Butler basically became the reincarnated Elvis Presley after portraying him in Elvis (2022) to the point that, even long after making the movie, he admitted to having trouble shaking off Elvis's distinctive Southern twang
.
- It is quite common that actors portraying characters who are close friends will also become friends in Real Life. — Same question as the Doctor Who example. Does actors taking on the emotions they felt for their costars while acting in real life fall under this trope, Lost in Character, or a platonic equivalent of Romantic Fake–Real Turn?
- William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy were almost as close as Captain Kirk and Commander Spock are. They were also both very close with DeForest Kelley, who played Dr McCoy.
- Cirroc Lofton and Avery Brooks of Deep Space Nine developed a real son-father type relationship away from the set.
- The actors who play Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson always seem to end up being extremely close friends in real life. Casting for modern adaptations mainly focused on the chemistry of the two leads so they would invoke this trope.
- Jeremy Brett and Edward Hardwicke are prime examples: Hardwicke, who played Watson from "The Empty House" onward, would try to help Brett while he was battling bipolar disorder.
- Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch (Watson and Sherlock in Sherlock) are either really good friends and very close to each other or extremely good at faking it.
- Frasier actors Kelsey Grammer and John Mahoney. After Mahoney passed away in 2018, Grammer honored him by saying "He was my father, and I loved him.", adding that Mahoney played his father longer than he knew his own father and that he never had a brother either, meaning that the relationship with both men was very much like family.
- The core cast of Boy Meets World (Ben Savage, Danielle Fishel, Rider Strong, and Will Friedle) have all become True Companions in Real Life, much as their characters (Cory, Topanga, Shawn, and Eric, respectively) did on the show. Three of the four (all but Savage) launched the podcast Pod Meets World in 2022, in which they rewatch and comment on BMW episodes.
- Jack Klugman and Tony Randall when they played Oscar and Felix, respectively on The Odd Couple (1970). Initially, both of them would have preferred to work with an actor that they'd co-starred with in their earlier performances of the original play. However, they very quickly bonded in the pursuit of an ever-funnier show-they'd argue all the time at work, sure, but it was always about the script and perfecting the scenes, never about them personally. Years later Klugman actually wrote a book in tribute to his and Randall's friendship, titled Tony and Me: A Story of Friendship.
- The converse of this is sadly also possible. Warren Mitchell and Anthony Booth, who played a feuding father- and son-in-law duo in Till Death Us Do Part came to loathe each other in real life. Mitchell still cannot bring himself to refer to Booth by his first name.
- The late Russi Taylor and the also late Wayne Allwine, the previous voices of Mickey and Minnie Mouse, developed a romance after meeting each other for the first time while on the job, and were married till Allwine's passing.
- Gates McFadden and Wil Wheaton played mother and son Dr. Beverly and Wesley Crusher on Star Trek: The Next Generation, and maintained that bond beyond TNG, with Wil frequently referring to Gates as "Space Mom".
- The original core cast of the Avengers apparently still maintain a WhatsApp group, years after half of them have left the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
- David Bowie apparently became very engrossed in some of his stage personas, to the point where they affected his offstage personality. He became so immersed in the character of Ziggy Stardust that, according to people around him, he started to think he was the character. This also applied to when he performed as the Thin White Duke — which was even more troubling, since the Thin White Duke was a Nazi Nobleman and Bowie ended up supporting fascism for a time. Bowie's period of Putting on the Reich is generally considered the lowest point of his drug-induced Creator Breakdown — as Rick James once said, "Cocaine is a hell of a drug." — This is Lost in Character.
- Playing Richard Nixon for Frost/Nixon, Frank Langella stayed in character all the time. When he wasn't in a scene he would just go stand quietly offstage and think. When it was his cue the stage manager would say "Mr. President, you are needed onstage." — Lost in Character and / or Method Acting.
- Japanese rockstar and entertainer Demon Kakka
(formerly known as Demon Kogure) takes this to another level. He has never broken character while in his stage persona of a futuristic demon from another dimension, up to this day: his actual name is unknown and he's never seen without his heavy Kabuki-esque makeup and theatrical costumes. All this while being the front man Seikima-II from 1982 to 1999 and every time they reunited. — This is Method Acting and / or Kayfabe.
- A Russian Intrepid Reporter, Yaroslava Tankova, went undercover as a Gold Digger to write a series of articles about such women in 2008-2009. In the last article she admitted that she almost wanted to give up journalism and become one, but talked herself out of it. — She "almost" wanted to, but didn't. This isn't an example.
- Psychologist Philip Zimbardo cut short his famous Stanford Prison Experiment when he realized that he was beginning to think like the sadistic prison guards he was studying. It only took six days out of a planned two weeks for his test subjects to fully internalize their roles; of these once ordinary people, those chosen to be guards exhibited genuine sadism, and those chosen to be prisoners exhibited genuine helplessness and submission. And Zimbardo himself noticed that he was starting to think and act more like a warden than a researcher. As a result, he stopped the experiment cold for everyone's safety when he realized how bad it had gotten. However, this still didn't actually prove Zimbardo's theory at all. Not only did he encourage the behaviours that the more sadistic guards showed (they were essentially acting sadistically because they knew those were the results Zimbardo wanted), but Zimbardo also did nothing to determine if the guards that were like this had sadistic tendencies before the experiment, since it was really only a select few who engaged in most of the abuse. In a way, it comes off as Zimbardo using Psychological Projection to justify his actions during the experiment, by making the claim that anyone else would have done the same. — The example itself explains that Zimbardo himself directed the behavior, so this isn't what happened.
- FBI agent Joseph Pistone successfully infiltrated the New York mafia as a jewel thief named Donnie Brasco (see Live-Action Film above for the movie based on this case). While undercover, he formed close friendships with two mobsters and had conflicted feelings when the time came to reveal himself as a law enforcement official. Ultimately, this would become a subversion, as having to deal with the day-to-day brutality and lack of any basic humanity among mobsters led Pistone to despise almost all of the criminals he was working alongside. — Real life can't be played with. Subversion requires author intent.
- Nowadays, undercover agents and officers undergo extensive training and psychological testing specifically to avert this trope. Unfortunately for Pistone, he went deep cover before any of this and had to rely on his own values. — Natter.
- This is the core concept behind "Fake It Till You Make It" in sociology. By forcing yourself to act a certain way even if you don't like it or it feels awkward, that behavior eventually becomes a habit. Therefore, if one should put on a mask of being happy, they will actually become happier. While this can't solve every problem by itself, it's a core tenet of Alcoholics Anonymous and the positivity movement. The idea is not so much that being happy automatically solves everything; rather, it's the optimism that you can overcome something with enough hard work and to break out of a cynical mindset that is stopping you from trying something. — General.
- An aversion is shown in A Bright Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan. US advisor John Vann builds up ARVN officer Colonel Huynh Van Cao as a Blood Knight anti-communist tiger in the belief that this trope would come into effect. However Cao often refused to close with and destroy Viet Cong forces when he had the opportunity to do so, as President Diem had ordered casualties to be kept to a minimum, and the propaganda image the Americans had built up now prevented them from acknowledging the flaws in the South Vietnamese military. — Real life can't be played with.
- It can be argued that Øystein "Euonymous" Aarseth of the Black Metal band Mayhem underwent this, believing his own hype so much that he underwent severe Sanity Slippage, crossed the Moral Event Horizon in regards to his treatment of their then-vocalist Dead, and cost himself multiple friendships and, if Varg's account of the stabbing is true, his own life. — Examples are not arguable. I heavily doubt that his music had to do with him abusing his bandmates.
- Dead himself could be considered an inversion of this trope in a very tragic way: He didn't become the mask, the mask became him.
- On the internet, it has been said that many people on the internet who've pretended to hold shocking or socially unacceptable positions (racism, fascism, misogyny, transphobia, etc.) for the sake of ironic humor have ended up actually holding those positions (becoming racist, fascist, misogynistic, transphobic, etc. for real) without even noticing. When confronted, they'll still claim they're being ironic. — General. "The internet" is not a monolith.
- Rye
started out as a weed that was similar enough to wheat that it was hard to separate out. It evolved to be even more like wheat and even harder to separate out until it was similar enough to wheat that it was a perfectly good cereal crop on its own, and is now intentionally grown. In short, this is an entire species becoming the mask through evolution. — Not an example. Evolution does not produce intentional personae.
- Oats also followed the same path as Rye, being a wheat mimicker. In both cases the Romans felt they were poor grain substitutes. Thanks to active cultivation of both through selective breeding, both are now on par with wheat as a staple grain.
- During the filming of The Edwardian Country House, the Olliff-Cooper family adopted the lifestyle of the upper class and eventually began to consider themselves as such, despite knowing it was all for a reality television show. The other wiki has a small subsection on the effect.
— Seems fine? If they're not explicitly acting, it's not Lost in Character.
- C. S. Lewis said that those who are afraid that they can't "love their neighbor" should just act as if they did and the rest would take care of itself. Lewis argued that the whole point of ritual and formalized prayer in religion was that you could 'dress up' as a saint - and thereby become one. — Seems fine? Was formerly a sub-bullet of the Screwtape Letters example.
- In World War II, after the Italians turned against the Nazis, the Germans coached an Italian petty thief to pose as an aristocratic Italian general and convince several captured resistance fighters to spill their secrets. He set out instead to be an inspiring figure who'd help the men hold onto their information and their pride. When the Germans executed him for betraying them, he died still maintaining the false identity. This was made into a movie, General Della Rovere, in 1959. — Seems fine, it specifically refers to a mole or con man.
- ATF agent William Queen spent two years undercover as Billy St. John, a member of the Mongols motorcycle gang, and admits he grew to liking the gang he was in and found them kinder than many law-abiding folks he knew. He felt somewhat sorry for turning them in when his job investigating and spying on the gang was over.
- Christopher Reeve became to be considered as noble a man as Superman - first when he went to Chile under the tyranny of Augusto Pinochet to help some arrested actors despite the obvious risk to his life, and after he became a crusader for the disabled after his riding accident. — this doesn't refer to Superman as a fictional character specifically, so seems fine as opposed to being Lost in Character? Would like more input.
- Theodore Roosevelt: Born a sickly asthmatic at the pinnacle of privilege, he built up a persona as a rugged man of action. By the time of the Spanish-American War, he was a rugged man of action.
- The same goes for Robert E. Howard, who got a lot of his ambiance for his rugged action-packed stories from the oil drillers, boxers, sailors and other manly men he emulated.
- Jack Barsky
was originally Albrecht Dittrich, an East German spy working for the KGB, and assumed the Jack Barsky persona while undercover in the United States. As time went on he found himself increasingly unable to separate his fake identity from his actual self, and when the Russians ordered him to return home in 1988 he "went native" and stayed with his American family. He later came clean to the FBI and became an American citizen, and now considers Jack Barsky his real identity and Albrecht Dittrich a dead one.
- Enforced Trope in Ancient Rome: Enslaving a Roman citizen was generally illegal, so there were fraudsters that pretended to be slaves and sold themselves to other people, only to run away with the money. The legal punishment for such people was to lose their citizenship and become a slave.
- After World War I, Hitler was employed as a spy sent to investigate what would later be called the Nazi Party Hitler liked what he saw and he went from being a spy to the leader.
Edited by NonexistentYeets on Aug 5th 2023 at 3:21:25 PM
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.Is it possible to overturn an NRLEP decision? If possible, I would like to raise the question of overturning it for Prefers Going Barefoot because:
1) It cannot be considered "gossip", as it's not something a person might not want to be classified as, or something they may face repercussions over (unlike, say, Cloud Cuckoolander or The Ophelia, which carry connotations of mental illness).
2) It is distinctive and notable enough to be brought up in interviews and other media (for example, this Wired piece on Thomas Jane
, coverage of Steve Jobs's barefooting habit in the American business magazine Inc.
)
3) Going barefoot by choice is a lifestyle that is becoming increasingly common nowadays, and its adherents are interested in recognition, representation and fending off stigma (see, for instance, this recent Guardian piece
)
In short, it is noteworthy enough to be mentioned, and people who fall under it would be at least agnostic about it, and at most, actively willing to identify as such; nobody would reject the "barefooter" label the way one may reject a "Cloudcuckoolander" or, say, a "Psycho Knife Nut" label.
No, we don't overturn NRLEP decisions once they're made (though that may hold less true for tropes that were made NRLEP back when the crowner system was much more... exploitable).
Aside from that, there's been a lot of pushback against the TRS cleanup and I fear that allowing the RL examples back will just contribute to the issue the TRS was designed to stop.
![]()
Your analysis seems mostly fine, though some of the examples in the last folder are a little lacking in context or don't really describe it as a "mask" so much as an idealized version of themselves they end up growing into.
That's all from the RL section; this is a cleanup thread first and foremost and checking for misuse is just as important as cutting the sections.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
x4
Is there another trope you know of that the "growing into an idealized version of themself" would fit better on? I'm also not sure about the examples regarding actors who played friends / couples becoming said in real life. It's not exactly Lost in Character, but I don't know of a trope covering it. The closest I can think of is Romantic Fake–Real Turn; is there a platonic equivalent or a Trivia trope covering that specifically for set relationships?
That's more for old NRLEP decisions that were made years ago. I don't know if the argument your presented is convincing enough for it to be re-crownered and there needs to be consensus for that anyways.
Macron's notesAlso as I said I'm far more concerned about the persistent misuse than I am about whether or not this can be overturned.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI don't really see any reason to un-NRLEP Prefers Going Barefoot. It's likely Too Common. Plenty of folks go barefoot, and it doesn't really mean anything.
Emotion Eater is impossible in real life. It refers to entities that literally eat or gain energy from others' emotional energy, which advertisers or liking to make others happy is not.
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.Which is why it went through TRS and was renamed and is being cleaned up.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Crown Description:
Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep. Anything marked DONE has been resolved. In order for a crowner to pass:- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Name of Cain is a Morality Trope and a Narrative trope yet has a real life folder.
Once Upon A Time.