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Real Life section maintenance (including NRLEP and LRLEO) (New Crowner 9/20/25)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.

As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
  • If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#12276: Sep 2nd 2022 at 3:31:25 PM

I noticed this ATT report and decided to bring the Past-Life Memories folder here for cleanup (I will post a link here in that report shortly). I don't think it's crowner-worthy as it stands, but could

In short, I find the examples are almost all too general, comments in bold mine:

    PLM Real Life folder 
  • Despite sounding like a complete fantasy, this phenomenon is present in real life and is a subject of serious research, although it is also dismissed by many as simple false memories. Potential past life memories usually manifest with small children (2-5 years of age) and tend to fade before the child reaches 10 years.too general, takes both sides and says nothing, cut
  • In Real Life, there are people who claim that a person can unlock memories of their past incarnations under hypnosis, usually the directly preceding one. Often, this is declared to be a reason for that person's mental or even physical problems (such as chronic pains), essentially a case of suppressed memories taken to the next level. Needless to say, psychologists are skeptical, especially as the very idea of suppressed memories as a cause of problems is rapidly becoming discredited. This is probably one of the more common kinds of reincarnation claims in the Western world.too general and unsourced, cut
  • Some of the more prominent practicioners of past life regression are Brian Weiss, Michael Newton (who called his technique "life between lives hypnotherapy"), Carol Bowman (who also investigated spontaneous memories) and Helen Wambach, who (succesfully) attempted to verify historical informations and statistics - gender, social class etc. of her subjects.prob okay, but that "successfully" bothers me and I'd say cut that word
  • Hypnosis and past-life regression is generally considered to be inaccurate, while there are verifiable cases, a lot of people may claim to be the same person (such as someone famous), for example. Regression memories are also harder to verify than spontaneous, as the time interval between last death and birth is usually decades or even centuries, while with spontaneous memories, the average time interval is 4 years, and median only 16 months.again, more unsourced and general natter
  • Past life researchers usually rely on spontaneous recall, which occurs with some small children (they usually fade before age of 10). The most well known researchers in this field are Ian Stevenson and Jim B. Tucker. They were able to find many cases and even confirm (compare the child's claims to actual information about deceased people) many of them. However, their work was criticised as being a result of cryptomnesia and confabulation, mostly because they performed the majority of their research in areas with pre-existing belief in reincarnation (hinduist and buddhist majority countries). It is possible, though, that such cases mostly appear there, because parents are more likely to take children's recall seriously, unlike monotheists or atheists, who are prevalent in the West. To adress this, Stevenson also investigated specific cases in Europe, while Tucker focused on American cases.prob needs tightenin because it wanders all over
  • Stevenson also investigated possible link between birthmarks or birth defects and (usually fatal) wounds of the previous person. He was often even able to verify these corresponding wounds in autopsy reports. He also reported the possibility of xenoglossy, a partial transfer of language knowledge from previous life (although most cases were too weak to be taken as an evidence).super unsourced, presenting something as fact, I'd recommend a cut
  • According to Stevenson's research, past life recall happens more often if the previous life ended in a violent manner or at least prematurely.natter, too much time on one researcher
  • One of the most well-known cases in the West is James Leininger, whose supposed previous life as a World War II pilot James Hudson (who died during the battle of Iwo Jima) initially gave him horrible recurring nightmares, so his parents could not just dismiss it as imagination or overlook it. Another well known case is Ryan Hammons, who recalled a life of Hollywood extra, later a succesful talent agency owner, Marty Martyn. Both of these cases are detailed in the documentary series Surviving Death.keep

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#12277: Sep 2nd 2022 at 3:37:09 PM

A lot of this general info can be moved to the description or something.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#12278: Sep 2nd 2022 at 6:30:21 PM

here's a first for me: Accidental Discovery just needs a cleanup because all its examples are indented under a general top-level bullet. the section seems fine otherwise.

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#12279: Sep 3rd 2022 at 6:39:23 PM

A lot of the "Episode" tropes are Narrative tropes (as real life does not have "Episodes" and a lot of the tropes would be "Chairs" without the episode context, like Broke Episode, the only one that already is NRLEP), and I'll get to some of them later, but I wanna talk about Missing Episode in particular. I think this is very much a meta trope, as RL has no "episodes" and a lot of the examples there belong in the TV or Internet sections (like the moon landing bit), or are totally misuse (like the bits about when your old elementary school closes down, that's not this trope at all, that's just nostalgia for something that isn't there anymore). The only examples that are neither of these are the Watergate thing (if we have a Useful Notes on Watergate, it's probably better served there), the fossils (a fossil is not an episode), a couple of variously disturbing examples, like the Basement tapes, Christine Chubbuck's suicide, and Timothy Treadwell's death, that I don't think really belong here, and the flight data recorders (again, not an "episode").

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#12280: Sep 3rd 2022 at 7:34:17 PM

[up][up][up]I think I'd run with all of laserviking's suggestions. I don't see how any of that belongs in the description.

[up]Honestly, the only thing there that really looks salvageable to me is that bit about how some early televised sports games have been lost forever or only partially remain, which could just as easily be moved to a Sports section. I'd cut the subpage itself.

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#12281: Sep 3rd 2022 at 7:57:13 PM

I moved the first couple of bullet points (the moon landing, early sports games, old speeches) to the TV subpage.

Wouldn't it need to be sent through the crowner before a mod would approve it getting cut through the Cut List? I'd crowner it anyway just to be safe.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#12282: Sep 3rd 2022 at 8:02:54 PM

Alright, since there's been backlash to "We should cut this, no further context" type posts, let me provide my rationale for why Pariah Prisoner should get some attention.

     Start of Section 
  • Contrary to popular belief, child molesters, bad cops and snitches are not the only prisoners targeted by inmates (or in some cases, by guards). (In this case, this is definitely not a case of Even Evil Has Standards.)
    • LGBT criminals suffer heavily in some prisons. This is due to the infamously homophobic sentiment shared among many guards and prisoners alike. they are seen as below even the worst of the child molesters, to the point where a common hoax circulated around the Double Standard: Rape, Male on Male trope was that the perpetrator in prisons was gay. In some years and areas, more LGBT people are killed by prisoners and guards than informants and child molesters.
    • People with racially egalitarian ideas are seen by prisoners of many stripes as "traitors" to their own "race" (thus feeding into the extremely bigoted environments all too common in prisons) and are frequently the target of Prison Rape and/or lynchings. However, many activists willing to go into prison in a hope to further advance progress on social issues would often realize how ill-informed the decision was due to the extremely prejudiced environments in many prisons and would often either leave with no way of employment or income (causing them to be driven to the Despair Event Horizon, leading to homelessness, terrorism and suicide, as not even their fellow activists are willing to attempt to prop up that victim's income after prison) or get killed in prison.
    • And just about any person with intellectual beliefs, or have no incentive for violence are seen as "worse" than informants and child molesters, due to them being seen as complete "cowards" who are "defenseless". Despite the obvious disparity in deaths, informants, bad cops, and child molesters disproportionately make up most of the pariahs in fiction and news coverage.

The section starts off with three general groups of people, the latter two quite sizable. This gives me the impression it may be too common. There are also potholes to NRLEP tropes and lots of commentary on prison politics, which is obvious Flame Bait.

Further down, you have indentation issues and ranting like this:

     Bold Inflation Ahoy 
  • James Eagan Holmes, the gunman who gained infamy for The Dark Knight Rises shootings in Aurora, Colorado, became this as not only that the judge expressed absolutely zero sympathy towards the shooter for maiming if not slaughtering scores of people including children who were at the theatre for the premiere, declaring that Holmes may "never set foot in free society again" and giving Holmes a Longer-Than-Life Sentence,note  a fellow inmate named Mark "Slim" Daniels attempted to murder him ostensibly to avenge the deaths of Holmes's victims. Whether Slim's motivation for sending the Dark Knight spree shooter to hell is sincere or not is debatable though, as he might have done this merely for the notoriety.

Hopefully, this better explains my thoughts. Maybe we could get away with a cleanup, but I personally thing axing the section is the way to go.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 3rd 2022 at 10:03:36 AM

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#12283: Sep 3rd 2022 at 8:09:12 PM

[up]I'd vote to put it on the crowner. It's far too common IRL and it's a bit gossipy too.

Wham Episode and Wham Line are NRLEP but Wham Shot is not. If anything, it's even more Narrative than the previous two since Wham Shot requires both the "Wham", which is a narrative element, and the "Shot", which isn't possible IRL since there are no "shots". Motion to add it to the next crowner?

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#12284: Sep 3rd 2022 at 8:10:12 PM

[up][up]I took a look at the RL section, and you are right, it is quite nattery. Honestly, everything save for the last three examples is just generalized natter of a "let me regurgitate some things I read in an article a while back" type.

We should axe everything unless it's specific, as in "Person X at Prison Y was beaten/killed for [etc]".

I would say lets cut it down, then see about crownering.

Edited by laserviking42 on Sep 3rd 2022 at 11:10:40 AM

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#12285: Sep 3rd 2022 at 8:26:07 PM

i cut all the examples that didn't mention a specific prisoner. here are a few concerns i have about the other examples:

  • Pedophile Priest John Geoghan was murdered by Joseph Druce, who was serving a life sentence for murder (and now serving a second life sentence for Geoghan's death). It was suggested at the time that Druce killed Geoghan to gain prestige in the prison hierarchy.

Pedophile Priest is NRLEP, so that wikiword should be cut. i would change it to something like "Convicted pedophile and ex-pastor John Geoghan...".

  • Serial Killer Jeffrey Dahmer was beaten to death by Christopher Scarver in 1994 while serving barely three years into his multiple life sentence. He was declared mentally competent to answer for his crimes, thus placed in the general population. What is notable about this incident is that Dahmer was white while Scarver is black. Normally, undesirable inmates such as pedophiles are always "handled" by inmates of their own race. To cross racial barriers on such an issue is a violation of prison politics, regardless of the end justifying the means. However, Dahmer was considered an acceptable exception due to the fact that while he was a white man, the majority of his victims were black males.

this seems nattery and could use a cut-down. personally, id move the second sentence before the first one and then cut everything from "What is notable..." onwards. in addition, Serial Killer is NRLEP, so needs to be un-linked at least.

  • James Eagan Holmes, the gunman who gained infamy for The Dark Knight Rises shootings in Aurora, Colorado, became this as not only that the judge expressed absolutely zero sympathy towards the shooter for maiming if not slaughtering scores of people including children who were at the theatre for the premiere, declaring that Holmes may "never set foot in free society again" and giving Holmes a Longer-Than-Life Sentence,note  a fellow inmate named Mark "Slim" Daniels attempted to murder him ostensibly to avenge the deaths of Holmes's victims. Whether Slim's motivation for sending the Dark Knight spree shooter to hell is sincere or not is debatable though, as he might have done this merely for the notoriety.

this needs to be rewritten to be less sensationalist and could probably also do with a general natter trim. seeking input on the best way to handle this one.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#12286: Sep 3rd 2022 at 10:16:25 PM

Wouldn't it need to be sent through the crowner before a mod would approve it getting cut through the Cut List? I'd crowner it anyway just to be safe.

See, this is the sort of thing people are talking about when they say some things shouldn't go through the crowner - I'm not talking about making the page NRLEP. (I think a case can be made for that, as I agree with the argument that real life doesn't really have 'episodes', but it'd be a separate issue). I'm proposing cutting all of the examples that can't be moved anywhere else because they are misuse.

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#12287: Sep 4th 2022 at 1:09:44 AM

Black Helicopter is half misuse and half okay. consensus to cut the examples that don't mention at least a specific model of chopper?

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#12288: Sep 4th 2022 at 6:57:53 AM

[up][tup]


Also, updated the thread title. Once the contents of the crowner reach a verdict, we can start anew with another set.

Edited by Berrenta on Sep 4th 2022 at 8:58:55 AM

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#12289: Sep 4th 2022 at 10:01:20 AM

Was Creepy Good ever crownered and voted on? Mechanicalman 450 both cut the folder and added it to the Morality index, but I don't see a vote on it.

Looking at the NRLEP-Morality Index, I see Mechanicalman 450 added a whole bunch of tropes:

I don't see any discussion, or see a mod having called any of these tropes. Before I make a report, wanted to make sure this wasn't discussed.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#12290: Sep 4th 2022 at 10:23:56 AM

i don't recall any of those tropes being brought up for discussion and i went over the thread with a fine-toothed comb yesterday. Mechanicalman did get dinged for unilateral moves once already, looks like these were missed in that discussion.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#12291: Sep 4th 2022 at 10:30:41 AM

The troper was already suspended for those and apparently it hasn't been undone.

Edited by Amonimus on Sep 4th 2022 at 8:30:53 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#12292: Sep 4th 2022 at 10:35:22 AM

alright, i reverted the unilateral additions. want to do this properly? i don't see an issue with crownering Creepy Good, Face of a Thug, Evil Brunette Twin, and Bad Humor Truck as morality tropes.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#12293: Sep 4th 2022 at 10:36:38 AM

I think it's fair to crowner these

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MissConduct (Septatroper)
#12294: Sep 4th 2022 at 12:30:30 PM

[up]x8 But the trope is impossible in real life and it's attracting misuse. I'd say that warrants a crowner...

[up][up]Yeah, I could see a case for crownering all of those. They all have a moral judgement involved in them so I'd vote for them.

Also, Reformed, but Rejected seems like not only a morality trope, but also a bit of an impossible trope in the way that 0% Approval Rating is - it's not possible for everyone to reject you the way it can happen in fiction.

Edited by MissConduct on Sep 4th 2022 at 3:38:03 PM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#12295: Sep 4th 2022 at 8:39:24 PM

Apologies for not changing the thread title when I changed the crowner. It's possible I was tired at the time and just didn't think of it, but I think the main factor was that the relatively large amount of crowner entries I added made my wrists cramp up (I blame carpal tunnel for that), so I wasn't in the mood for more typing.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 4th 2022 at 10:41:35 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Mechanicalman450 Since: Mar, 2020
#12296: Sep 5th 2022 at 4:12:43 AM

I will not do what I did before, since I have learned by lesson since my suspension. But do you believe these tropes should be in Morality Tropes:

Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Sep 5th 2022 at 12:21:28 PM

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#12297: Sep 5th 2022 at 5:42:21 AM

[up] Don't forget Evil Brunette Twin.

Since Rules of the Road's NRLEP status is looking probable, I'm going to suggest Can't You Read the Sign? for next crowner as well - again, signs being posted for important reasons is Too Common, and a lot of the RL examples are just "wacky signs" which is not this trope.

Also, thoughts on Mum Looks Like a Sister? I feel like it's a little gossipy and also an attractiveness trope.

Edited by MissConduct on Sep 5th 2022 at 9:50:30 AM

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#12298: Sep 5th 2022 at 9:22:06 AM

Expressive Mask only has three examples, but at least two of them are misuse.

    Real Life 
  • Many high-quality full-head silicone and latex masks (particularly those made by SPFX Masks, Composite Effects, Immortal Masks and Greyland Productions) are capable of having somewhat-to-hyper realistic mouth movement and facial expressions, bringing Latex Perfection to real life. general
    • There have been some experiments merging silicone/latex masks with mild animatronics that mimic the facial movements of the actor portraying the character (using things like chin straps), theoretically allowing for expressive masks that are further removed from Rubber Forehead Aliens that don't require separate animatronic performers. This was notably used in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace for Nute Gunray, and while the mask itself was of high quality and believable, the lip syncing with the actor was made fun of (doubly ironic because Gunray was already a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Japan regarding clothing and accent, making him look like a badly dubbed anime). Later movies used CG or actual animatronics to get a better performance. natter, relevant part can go under Film folder if it's good
  • Raccoons look like they wear painted on masks and are more expressive because of it. misuse, they aren't actually wearing masks
  • John Rhys-Davis gave a lengthy talk on how to enact this trope in the Lord of the Rings extended edition documentaries. Acting through the prosthetics requires extensive overexaggeration. Jim Carry had similar discussion about how to make the Grinch prosthetic work, which you can truly appreciate in footage of the make up artists wearing the costume while testing it out, and it looked completely wooden in comparison to Carry's performance. maybe ok? i know similar examples have been kept in the past, but this is written very messily

probably no need to crowner, unless yall think it's Impossible?

Edited by ChloeJessica on Sep 5th 2022 at 9:22:18 AM

Mechanicalman450 Since: Mar, 2020
#12299: Sep 5th 2022 at 10:10:00 AM

[up]In Expressive Mask, I am unsure whether I agree or disagree with the first and third examples, but I agree that the second example is not an example of the trope.

Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Sep 5th 2022 at 6:10:20 PM

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#12300: Sep 5th 2022 at 10:22:06 AM

[up][up] I'd cut all three, honestly. 1 and 2 are misuse, and I don't usually like playing the [citation needed] card but unless it's mentioned if these were DVD bonus features or something I can't be sure if these interviews exist.

I wouldn't crowner though, I wouldn't say it's impossible just that it doesn't exist IRL yet.

Edited by MissConduct on Sep 5th 2022 at 1:59:31 PM

Projects: Long Term/Perpetual: Real Life Section Maintenance
20th Sep '25 9:57:50 AM

Crown Description:

Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep.

Anything marked DONE has been resolved.

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

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