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Real Life section maintenance (including NRLEP and LRLEO) (New Crowner 9/20/25)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.

As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
  • If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM

RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#8901: Nov 22nd 2020 at 12:45:33 PM

The answer varies between areas; I was speaking mainly for those in the US. "First Nations" is the preferred term across most of Canada, though some of them are fine with being called Indians (though less commonly than in the States.) If you're speaking to or about an individual, just ask them what they prefer.

Edited by RallyBot2 on Nov 22nd 2020 at 3:47:05 PM

Zyffyr from Portland, Oregon Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#8902: Nov 22nd 2020 at 1:06:38 PM

Not a commentary on whether or not I think The Savage Indian should be listed, but the idea that some of the examples using the word Indian is somehow problem is absurd. There are 3 that use it. Two are quoting someone else's usage of the term (one is the Declaration of Independence). The third is the proper name of a location.

AHI-3000 Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#8903: Nov 22nd 2020 at 1:42:21 PM

The problem with The Savage Indian trope having Real Life examples is because it's about an old racist stereotype. Why are we debating the terminology here?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8904: Nov 22nd 2020 at 1:44:13 PM

Uh, the examples themselves are for the most part not racist; they're pretty much just discussing people claiming these things about Natives or portraying them as such. The folder needs a lot of cleaning but it's not really like we're just calling real-life tribes "savages", at least not for 90% of the section.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
AHI-3000 Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#8905: Nov 22nd 2020 at 2:06:59 PM

In general though, tropes about ethnic stereotypes (especially if they're listed on Evil Race Tropes) are not allowed to keep any Real Life examples.

PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#8906: Nov 22nd 2020 at 2:33:09 PM

I'm still wondering if I can move Darker and Edgier to the narrative tropes section. I could also add that it was also attracting controversial examples as well.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#8907: Nov 22nd 2020 at 4:26:24 PM

Maybe summarize some examples on The Savage Indian on an Analysis page?

Rock'n'roll never dies!
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
Maintenance?
#8908: Nov 22nd 2020 at 5:23:02 PM

[up][up] Sounds plausible; it's about an installation being different in tone than the previous one.

I'm back!
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#8909: Nov 22nd 2020 at 7:11:41 PM

Canadian here.

"First Nations" is definitely the most preferred term.

Kirby is awesome.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#8910: Nov 22nd 2020 at 9:48:53 PM

I would think that having real life examples for State Sec would be too controversial.

Zyffyr from Portland, Oregon Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#8911: Nov 22nd 2020 at 10:07:32 PM

[up]And I am done with hinting around. Instead of listing a category, make a case regarding some specific problematic entries and why you feel they are an issue.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#8912: Nov 22nd 2020 at 10:12:38 PM

  • At various times throughout American history, up to the present day, federal government agencies such as the FBI (occasionally) and the CIA (especially) have been accused of being such, and at the non-federal level, similar criticisms have also been aimed at allegedly militarized police departments in various states and localities. Whether or not these accusations have any basis in reality is a discussion best had elsewhere.

  • The United States Coast Guard is a military organization, but in peacetime it operates independently of the normal military. Today it's run by the Department of Homeland Security, but in years past it has been in the Department of Transportation and the Department of the Treasury (who also used to control the Secret Service). Unlike most Real Life examples though, this one isn't evil, just unusual.
    • Even more unusual, both the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (part of the Department of Commerce) and Public Health Service (part of the Department of Health and Human Services) have some commissioned officers. They use Navy/Coast Guard ranks and wear the same uniforms, but with different insignia. They are non-combatants who can be attached to military units as needed. Among the many things these two parts of government do: the NOAA runs the National Weather Service and the National Marine Fisheries Service while the PHS runs the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the National Institutes of Health.

  • Turkey during the political instability of the 1970s did not have an actual State Sec (Secret Police is another question though). However, almost every political party that vied for supremacy had a paramilitary wing to conduct their morally dubious operations. More often than not, when the Government, the Army or the National Intelligence Agency needed its dirty work done, it would use one of these organisations. The most notorious and only surviving example is the nationalist Grey Wolves who have been involved with some of the blackest of government and army operations. These days, they're on the news regarding their part in a suspected military coup.
    • Armed political parties are a recurring theme in the Middle East. The kindling for Lebanon's Civil War was that every political force had a paramilitary organization, making it easy for the Arab–Israeli Conflict to light the fire; Hamas and Fatah's armed forces allowed them to fight a rather embarrassing civil war in 2006-7, and Hamas uses its armed wing as a secret police in Gaza; and any political party worth its salt had a militia under the Egyptian monarchy (before the July Revolution of 1952).

[up] Comparing modern police and intelligence forces to Nazi Germany is essentially invoking Godwin's Law.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 22nd 2020 at 1:20:13 PM

Zyffyr from Portland, Oregon Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#8913: Nov 22nd 2020 at 10:35:37 PM

Thank you. My annoyance wasn't personal, we just need to have some substance to start with.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#8914: Nov 23rd 2020 at 4:08:27 AM

Its ok. I just needed to elaborate.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#8915: Nov 23rd 2020 at 6:00:02 AM

While Rome Burns has a real life section, and it currently includes Trump. Should we cut/clean this up? We don't trope real life people in general, and on top of that, troping current politicians is possibly against the rules as well (and is definitely flame bait in any case).

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#8916: Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:44:04 AM

[up] Trump example should be dumped.

2025: the year it all ends?
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#8917: Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:50:12 AM

I see there is a big entry for Channel Awesome as well, I think that should be cut too.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#8918: Nov 23rd 2020 at 8:50:03 AM

[up] And it's probably a shoehorn anyway. An outdated Internet video company that was doomed to implode anyway having a bunch of people quit is not akin to a natural disaster, and a corporate obligation to shut up about allegations until they go away is not the same as standing by during a horrible disaster. (The only ones who would've considered it a true disaster from a PR standpoint would have been the people still in the company - if all of them brushed the allegations off eventually and just went about their business, is it really this trope?)

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 11:51:40 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
Maintenance?
#8919: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:51:35 AM

I'd think cleanup will suffice for While Rome Burns, since most of the historical examples are okay. Specifically, removing ROCEJ violations and misuse.

I'm back!
Zyffyr from Portland, Oregon Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#8920: Nov 23rd 2020 at 6:39:14 PM

Time to make some more calls.

Beautiful All Along (15-4) NRLEP

Hoist by His Own Petard (8-11) KEEP

Currently Pending : The Savage Indian, Frat Bro

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#8921: Nov 23rd 2020 at 6:43:58 PM

The Moral Guardians page is very problematic, especially the Real Life section, which is mainly about complaining about them (and many of them are either active organizations or are living individuals).

Not just that, but Moral Guardians is listed under the Villains index (and not many tropes in the Villains index have Real Life examples for obvious reasons).

I propose that it should be added to NRLEP for being too controversial. The same could be said about Media Watchdog.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:44:59 AM

Kirby is awesome.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#8922: Nov 23rd 2020 at 8:37:16 PM

Now would probably be a good time to say that we're not supposed to add entire categories (such as villain tropes) to a single crowner option. Tropes are supposed to be evaluated separately.

That said, since only Moral Guardians specifically is being discussed, I'm going to vote against doing anything with it. The page is already locked due to vandalism, meaning all examples (both fictional and non-fictional) have to be evaluated by the mods.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:38:41 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
Maintenance?
#8923: Nov 23rd 2020 at 8:39:22 PM

[up][up][nja] I get the impression that Moral Guardians are too common as well. Media Watchdog seems to attract natter.

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:39:41 AM

I'm back!
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#8924: Nov 23rd 2020 at 8:50:33 PM

If I could get so specific, I'd want Moral Guardians to have no on-page real-life examples, but it's an important term for discussing things like censorship in wicks. And Media Watchdog is largely contextualized by the real-life companies in charge of censorship, and doesn't even have the same negative connotations as Moral Guardians, so I don't think it makes any sense to make Media Watchdog NRLEP. If it attracts natter, then just clean the natter.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 11:51:05 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#8925: Nov 25th 2020 at 11:03:53 AM

As noted here, Trumplica has a Real Life folder trying to compare other politicians to Donald Trump and it's just as gossipy and shoehorn-y as you'd think. Even after the Wall of Text about the 2020 USA election was removed, the rest of these examples don't count because they're probably not conscious stand-ins for Trump, they're just compared to them a lot (using possibly inflammatory reasoning).

    Trumplica Real Life 
  • After Trump's rise to power, multiple right-wing authoritarian figures in various countries have deliberately emulated his style, rhetoric and policy, some of which directly deal with Trump and/or are fans of the man:
    • Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of Great Britain. He superficially resembles Trump and has the crazy yellow hair, and much like Trump he rallied his base around a single issue heavily tied to national identity (Brexit).
    • Jair Bolsonaro, President of Brazil. Formerly a YouTube pundit, Bolsonaro rose to power via an authoritarian coup that resulted in his imprisoning his political opponent, Lula da Silva, running on a fervently pro-capitalistic platform that included the burning of the Amazon rainforest for profit.
    • Doug Ford, Premier of Ontario, Canada. Like Trump, Ford is overweight, has weird blonde hair, was born into wealth, and played on people's dissatisfaction with "liberals" to get elected, pushing the normally left-wing province's politics as far to the right as possible after being elected. His handling of the COVID-19 Pandemic, while better than Trump, still fell short of the standard set by most other provinces as well as Justin Trudeau's nationwide response.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 25th 2020 at 2:05:12 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Projects: Long Term/Perpetual: Real Life Section Maintenance
20th Sep '25 9:57:50 AM

Crown Description:

Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep.

Anything marked DONE has been resolved.

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Total posts: 16,914
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