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Real Life section maintenance (including NRLEP and LRLEO) (New Crowner 9/20/25)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.

As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
  • If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM

Sixthhokage1 Since: Feb, 2013
#1751: Sep 3rd 2013 at 12:00:39 PM

Common misuse is still misuse

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#1752: Sep 3rd 2013 at 12:01:21 PM

'Sides, if a trope needs a non-evil/non-good example, that needs to go to TRS, not NRELP discussion.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#1753: Sep 3rd 2013 at 1:37:53 PM

Good, evil, or neutral, it is offensive to suggest that someone is pulling the strings of the person that is supposedly in charge.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1754: Sep 3rd 2013 at 1:38:41 PM

But frequently accurate, and borne out by history. We only want examples that are verified, after all, not speculation or political soapboxing.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1755: Sep 3rd 2013 at 1:54:09 PM

I am not seeing how it's offensive at all.

Anyhow, is there a trope for the neutral version, other than the currently written-up-as-villain-trope version?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1756: Sep 3rd 2013 at 2:01:10 PM

If we stipulate that the Real Life section isn't about calling someone a villain, I don't see why it has to be removed. Modifying the description would be a TRS topic, as noted. The general idea of someone being a hidden authority figure is not inherently villainous, although it may serve a different narrative role when it applies to someone other than a villain.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#1757: Sep 3rd 2013 at 2:56:51 PM

The head of government is supposed to be the most powerful official in a government. You can't see why saying that he isn't the real power might be considered offensive?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1758: Sep 3rd 2013 at 3:05:45 PM

I'm more concerned with it being true, or at least verified by history. Beyond that, ROCEJ applies.

edited 3rd Sep '13 3:06:18 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Candi Sorcerer in training from Closer to rimward than hubward Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Sorcerer in training
#1759: Sep 3rd 2013 at 5:14:54 PM

The Man Behind the Man would have to either be TRS'd to change the description from strictly a villain trope, or have the RL examples removed because it's a villain trope. The trope as used in fiction seems to be primarily something the bad guys do.

The 'good' version appears to be a useful and loyal adviser who consults with a leader who knows how competent they are and acts accordingly. At the moment, I don't have the trope for that.

I don't see it being offensive that someone not in official power or of lower rank is the one pulling the strings. Leaders rarely have all the power they seem to, or think they do; Louis XIV, for an example, was unusual in his total domination of those who served him. Stories have noted this fact and run with it for as long as stories have existed. It's the results that matter in this case; is the one pulling the strings working for the good of the led, or is he out for his own ends.

Edit: Placed an inquiry for the good/neutral version of The Man Behind the Man in Lost And Found. Because I'm stuck.

Edit2: Mentor and Supporting Leader were suggested in L&F.

edited 4th Sep '13 4:48:06 PM by Candi

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#1760: Sep 3rd 2013 at 6:41:03 PM

Yeah, I'm sure it happens. It's just that many of the examples are unpopular politicians, or like the Chinese one outright call the person a bad ruler.

Also, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean: Mao of Communist China, and Stalin of the Soviet Union, including their contributions to Socialism in the forms of Maoism and Stalinism, claim to be branches of Marxist-Leninist roots, which make Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin examples of this trope for left wing politics.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1761: Sep 3rd 2013 at 7:02:14 PM

[up]Yank it. That describes an indirect influence, and not the people themselves trying to actively rule through someone else.

Check out my fanfiction!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1762: Sep 3rd 2013 at 9:18:37 PM

Indeed. "Influenced by" is not the same thing as "secretly ruled by". Marx was not running China behind the scenes.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#1763: Sep 4th 2013 at 4:55:13 AM

[up]If he was we would have to start allowing Real Life examples for all our Undead tropes. [lol]

ChaoticNovelist Since: Jun, 2010
#1764: Sep 4th 2013 at 7:38:31 AM

Nohbody, how did so many people comment before I could respond?

Seriously though, I was thinking that it's possible to have someone 'pulling the strings behind the scenes' that's not evil. Maybe I was thinking about Chessmaster Sidekick but the idea that Man Behind the Man can only be a villainous trope sounds limiting.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1765: Sep 4th 2013 at 8:37:52 AM

This isn't TRS, so "trope is too narrowly defined" isn't terribly relevant for NRLEP purposes. tongue

More seriously, if you (or anyone else) can get it into TRS, then the crowner entry can be changed to "pending TRS resolution" as was done with Hopeless War in the previous crowner. As Behind exists now, though, it's officially a villain trope, which is NRLEP fodder.


On another note, calling Reverse Mole - Added 2nd Sep 13 at 01:52:10 AM, 5.5:1 (13)

edited 4th Sep '13 8:40:58 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#1766: Sep 4th 2013 at 4:46:52 PM

Culled the part about Marx running PRC. (Would be interesting if we could have RL tropes for the undead though.) Also removed a blatantly anti-semetic tract. Can we have some requirement for citations in these entries?

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1767: Sep 4th 2013 at 7:35:22 PM

If it's something recent, perhaps. Otherwise it's history, which shouldn't be that hard to find out more about.

Check out my fanfiction!
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#1768: Sep 4th 2013 at 8:04:43 PM

There have been a number of times I wish our Real Life sections required citations.

I get not requiring it for a distinct work of fiction, because if I say that Lord Of The Rings uses a Ring of Power, the citation is to the book itself. No need to point to a different source to say what can be found in the book or TV series or whatever described.

But if someone wants to make some of the unlikely claims about Real Life I've seen made on this website, I really would like to see something to back it up.

Candi Sorcerer in training from Closer to rimward than hubward Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Sorcerer in training
#1769: Sep 5th 2013 at 12:48:34 AM

[up] Pro: Limiting the Take Thats and shoehorns.

Con: Absolutely a pain to police.

Middle Ground: A guideline that citations are preferred?

edited 5th Sep '13 12:49:54 AM by Candi

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
Leliel Since: Aug, 2009
#1771: Sep 9th 2013 at 9:04:49 AM

Hello, this is a repost in the proper section.

I just made an addition to the Real Life section of He-Man Woman Hater, in which I talk about, let's face it, the Jerkass Straw Misogynist contingent of the men's rights movement, and why it is now nigh-universally condemned by the internet.

I put in a Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement link in there, but given how much of a hot-button issue it is, I'm still unsure if that was a good idea.

Should I delete it?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1773: Sep 9th 2013 at 9:09:17 AM

The biggest worry I have is that that entry's claiming that most people fit the trope - which I find questionable.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Leliel Since: Aug, 2009
#1774: Sep 9th 2013 at 9:14:19 AM

All right-better to err on the side of caution, then.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1775: Sep 9th 2013 at 11:58:18 AM

Since it's up for discussion at all, is it a trope that should have real life examples?

I don't really see that there's a major problem with it as it is, but even if the two examples that are there are about murderers who're documented as such, I still wonder if it's such a good idea to have them.

Check out my fanfiction!

Projects: Long Term/Perpetual: Real Life Section Maintenance
20th Sep '25 9:57:50 AM

Crown Description:

Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep.

Anything marked DONE has been resolved.

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Total posts: 16,914
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