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Real Life section maintenance (including NRLEP and LRLEO) (New Crowner 9/20/25)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.

As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
  • If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1726: Aug 30th 2013 at 6:46:00 AM

There is always going to be some disagreement on what tropes fall under #1. My concern is that the proposed description for #2 is too broad and contestable.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LordGro (Old as dirt)
#1728: Aug 30th 2013 at 8:24:47 AM

@Septimus, Terrie: You are being over-literal. At the end of the day, everything in a work of fiction is intentional. "Intentional" as in: The creator could have made it different, but didn't.

Creators can chose whether they follow a convention or not. Even if they may not always be aware of that choice. But there's nothing that forces them to follow a convention.

@Terrie, your example is bad because Ethnic Scrappy is not a trope, but an Audience Reaction. Spot the difference.

Real life has no tropes. It's really that simple. No exceptions.

For the record: I do not support cutting all Real Life sections. But not because I think that real life "has tropes", but because I think often RL sections are a harmless entertainment, and sometimes even funny or educating.

It follows that I also don't think that "intentional usage" is an automatic No Real Life Examples tag. The reason for Wham Line to get the NRLEP treatment is that what constitutes a "WHAM moment" in real life is completely subjective. RL examples for such a trope ask for Troper Tales.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1729: Aug 30th 2013 at 7:35:21 PM

Real life has tropes. Motifs, for instance, can be used in real life. Characterization Tropes can be used to play up a certain personality. The boundary between fictional stories and the real is quite fluid.

edited 30th Aug '13 7:35:37 PM by AnotherDuck

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Candi Sorcerer in training from Closer to rimward than hubward Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Sorcerer in training
#1730: Aug 30th 2013 at 9:37:46 PM

It at least needs to be specified that certain tropes that exist only within a constructed or rebuilt narrative generally can't have real life examples.

At best, writers on history (for example) can identify relevant tropes after the fact and use them when writing about what happened during the relevant events.

At worst, the tropes just can't happen in real life because they require someone to make the story.

edited 30th Aug '13 9:38:39 PM by Candi

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
SmytheOrdo Wide Eyed Wonderman from In The Mountains Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Wide Eyed Wonderman
#1731: Aug 31st 2013 at 5:02:46 PM

Are We allowed to change the reasons given on the page to things less inscrutable? For instance:

edited 31st Aug '13 5:03:20 PM by SmytheOrdo

David Bowie 1947-2016
Someoneman Since: Nov, 2011
#1732: Aug 31st 2013 at 7:57:08 PM

Reverse Mole should be NRLEP. It is about when a villain turns out to be on the heroes' side, which means that for it to work, we need a villain. I removed two examples involving World War II Germany and one involving Hell's Angels, leaving only the rather broad "Every Mole is someone else's reverse mole".

edited 31st Aug '13 8:00:37 PM by Someoneman

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1733: Aug 31st 2013 at 8:02:42 PM

There's one example, and that's just, "Really, any real life Mole is someone's Reverse Mole." I think the implication is, "And let's leave it at that." I don't think we need to do anything.

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1734: Aug 31st 2013 at 8:04:00 PM

Edit: The only difference in this case between The Mole and Reverse Mole is their narrative purpose. I can see the point in saying that RL examples only belong on the former, if only to avoid having to make the distinction as to which side is "good" and which side is "bad".

edited 31st Aug '13 8:06:21 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1735: Aug 31st 2013 at 8:19:46 PM

Considering that, the argument that it's a pair of heroes vs villains tropes, both tropes would imply that one side is Good and the other Evil, so on that they should either both be allowed or neither. Both also require the same narrative in determining sides.

The only real difference is that mole is a word applied to that kind of job no matter which side the agent is on, so the real life examples sort of imply they're not talking about heroes and villains, just about undercover agents of undetermined morality. Which is something I could argue for several tropes that's been denied real life examples, but if we're following what we've done previously, neither should allow real life examples.

That was a few more words than I thought it'd be...

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nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1736: Aug 31st 2013 at 8:46:22 PM

Honestly, I've always felt the good/evil Mole/Reverse Mole distinction was kind of arbitrary anyway.

edited 31st Aug '13 8:46:32 PM by nrjxll

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1737: Aug 31st 2013 at 9:10:32 PM

I really think the distinction is less about sides than Reverse Mole being "She's on our side, but we didn't know," so more about being on the protagonist's side than the hero's side. Still kind of arbitrary, but does make some sense. Either way, this isn't the place for discussing that.

Check out my fanfiction!
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
Candi Sorcerer in training from Closer to rimward than hubward Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Sorcerer in training
#1739: Sep 2nd 2013 at 3:30:31 AM

Has anyone hollered to have the new crowner hooked up?

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#1740: Sep 2nd 2013 at 4:07:27 AM

Yeah I hollered. It was in the middle of the night so I didn't expect it to be done immediately.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#1741: Sep 2nd 2013 at 7:24:03 AM

The new crowner's hooked.

Candi Sorcerer in training from Closer to rimward than hubward Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Sorcerer in training
#1742: Sep 2nd 2013 at 4:26:06 PM

Thanks muchly!

I just didn't want to holler if it'd already been done, because that might come across as nagging. tongue

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1743: Sep 3rd 2013 at 5:53:34 AM

OK,so This Loser Is You has just one real life example,and for the life of me I can't understand what its supposed to be about,anyone?

Edit: Should Shut Up, Hannibal!! have a real life section?

edited 3rd Sep '13 6:09:28 AM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1744: Sep 3rd 2013 at 8:30:47 AM

Probably can just cut that RL example from This Loser Is You as a generic example, without voting on NRLEP status.

Putting The Man Behind the Man and Dragon Ascendant on the crowner, as villain tropes. (Big Bad and The Dragon, important to the respective tropes, are already NRLEP).

(And I have no idea why it adds those extra double-backslashes when I post the edited version...)

edited 3rd Sep '13 8:37:58 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
ChaoticNovelist Since: Jun, 2010
#1745: Sep 3rd 2013 at 9:12:35 AM

I disagree with the context for Man Behind the Man. It's not exclusively for someone behind a villain. The way I see it, it's any combination of 'Front man' with 'mastermind'. They can be anything from Lawful Good to True Neutral to Chaotic Evil.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1746: Sep 3rd 2013 at 9:58:34 AM

Chaotic, I'm not trying to be a dick, but did you actually read the description for The Man Behind the Man?

It explicitly states a) he's the person directing the plan originally seen as being from the Big Bad (first paragraph), b) he reveals his reasons for being evil (second paragraph), c) The Man Behind the Man is the real Big Bad (third paragraph).

All your safe space are belong to Trump
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1747: Sep 3rd 2013 at 10:00:43 AM

Of the examples of the RL section, at least some of them seem to be about "neutral" people (i.e people not described as bad).

edited 3rd Sep '13 10:02:39 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#1748: Sep 3rd 2013 at 10:53:11 AM

Then that would be misuse. The description makes it clear this is a trope about evil people.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1749: Sep 3rd 2013 at 11:19:33 AM

I find that to be rather common. Tropes that applies to heroes and villains often ignore those parts when it comes to real life examples, probably because there's often no non-aligned trope of the same kind.

Check out my fanfiction!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1750: Sep 3rd 2013 at 11:53:28 AM

[up]That's actually a pretty good point in keeping The Man Behind the Man's real life section.

Projects: Long Term/Perpetual: Real Life Section Maintenance
20th Sep '25 9:57:50 AM

Crown Description:

Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep.

Anything marked DONE has been resolved.

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Total posts: 16,914
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