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Real Life section maintenance (including NRLEP and LRLEO) (New Crowner 9/20/25)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.

As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
  • If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM

Sixthhokage1 Since: Feb, 2013
#1551: Jul 26th 2013 at 6:30:02 PM

NRLEP means don't make examples from RL; IUEO means it must be in-universe, not a reaction

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#1552: Jul 26th 2013 at 8:06:52 PM

To further clarify, an In-Universe Only trope can still have examples from real life, as long as they fit the definition.

edited 26th Jul '13 8:07:14 PM by Nocturna

reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#1553: Jul 26th 2013 at 9:58:07 PM

I think in practice the two index's serve the same function but are applied for different reasons. Either way, listing the times that actual people have walked out on a form of entertainment is just asking for trouble.

Also Wizarding School is 9-4 in favor of NRLEP and was added 6 days ago. Can a mod add it to the index?

Someoneman Since: Nov, 2011
#1554: Jul 28th 2013 at 11:31:03 AM

I'd like to point out that What Could Have Been still has Real Life examples in the Religion And Technology section.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1555: Jul 28th 2013 at 3:57:49 PM

So False Flag Operation has a real life section,should it?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1556: Jul 28th 2013 at 4:53:25 PM

Is it causing any arguments? It's not a matter of assigning moral values; it is something that absolutely does happen.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1557: Jul 28th 2013 at 11:33:38 PM

Regarding False Flag Operation, at a glance it doesn't look like a major contender for NRLEP, but I am kinda leery about all the "could be" speculation in more than a few of the entries.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1558: Jul 28th 2013 at 11:36:00 PM

[up]Is it "pure" speculation or noting actual real-world conspiracy theories and the like? The latter would be more justified (although I can see it causing problems too).

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1559: Jul 28th 2013 at 11:56:27 PM

Two that caught my attention, setting aside the Natterific formatting hell as beyond the scope of this thread:

  • Some claim the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Days War was one of these. On the one hand, the fact that Israel quickly accepted blame for the incident, claiming it to have been a tragic mistake, sort of defeats the notion of it being a "false flag". On the other hand, there is still much controversy over aspects of the incident and how deliberate it may have been, and the theory that Israel would have shifted responsibility to Egypt, if it could have, is certainly in the spirit of the term.

  • It is widely suspected that members of British intelligence (rogue or otherwise) secretly colluded with UVF terrorists and the RUC Special Branch in carrying out the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings in order to influence an anti-terrorism vote which was going before the Irish parliament the next day.

The last two entries strike me as being too "generic" to be appropriate, NRLEP or not.

  • Name any major violent attack at any time in any place on Earth. There's an even chance that someone will accuse their government of staging it for their own ends.
  • According to conspiracy theorists, all wars are false flag operations conducted by The Illuminati, which will lead to a One World Order for vague reasons.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1560: Jul 29th 2013 at 2:21:17 AM

Oh, definitely axe the generic examples - which includes the "some blame" and "it is widely believed" top two. If they're quoting specific historians or something as believing this, it's fine, but "some" on the internet is usually another way of saying "I".

I think Wizarding School is ready to call, although I'm a little baffled by how it managed to get five "against" votes.

edited 29th Jul '13 2:22:00 AM by nrjxll

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1561: Jul 29th 2013 at 2:24:21 AM

Re Wizarding School: You didn't notice Another Duck's arguments, yes?

Otherwise, I am fine with removing these bad entries from False Flag Operation.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1562: Jul 29th 2013 at 2:44:54 AM

I saw them, but I think they completely misunderstand what a real life section is supposed to include.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1563: Jul 29th 2013 at 3:02:30 AM

Regarding "Some", yeah that does seem to be common use.

False Flag Operation's RL section cleaned up a little, though it still needs work that's beyond the scope of this thread.

edited 29th Jul '13 3:12:33 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1564: Jul 29th 2013 at 7:58:24 AM

I agree entirely that speculation has no place in the RL section of FFO; it should only be for documented historical cases.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Someoneman Since: Nov, 2011
#1565: Jul 29th 2013 at 3:18:21 PM

Should Sealed Evil in a Can be NRLEP? After all, putting a real person on the page means that you're saying they're evil, which is a bad thing, and some examples involve toxins, disease and radioactive materials, which have no mind and thus cannot be evil.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1566: Jul 29th 2013 at 4:15:48 PM

[up]Yes.

Check out my fanfiction!
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1567: Jul 29th 2013 at 5:15:43 PM

[up], [up][up]

Agreed. Added to the crowner.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#1568: Jul 30th 2013 at 12:24:56 PM

Some of the claims on False Flag Operation are stated as fact but are rather dubious or overly general with no specific examples to back it up.

Such as:

  • The police has used (and may still use) agents provocateur during demonstrations to start riots and give their uniformed comrades a reason to crack down on the demonstrators. It has backfired occasionally, when the uniformed riot cops battered a group of protestors [sic], including some undercover officers. It would have been hilarious, if it hadn't been for the dozens of injured protestors [sic].

If this were Wikipedia I would say "citation please."

Even given that it this Wikipedia: Frankly this seems like the type of thing that is made up as an excuse by protesters that don't want to admit to violent elements among protesters. But even if we were to assume that this has been true in some case: Which police when and where? There is no one worldwide organization called "The Police". There must be thousands of law enforcement organizations world wide, and even more counting historical ones. All of these many different police organizations have had very different tactics, standards, values etc.

Something is a similar vein:

  • Australian security companies and the police will in their never-ending attempt to destroy the supporter groups of major football teams often go undercover in an attempt to incite the actual members of the groups to break laws or guidelines so they can be arrested or punished.

Yeah freaking right. Like the Aussie police have nothing better to do. Sounds like more paranoid delusions to me.

Also, simple "accusations" should not be listed.

  • Some Anonymous accuse the Church of Scientology of trying a form of this during the earliest parts of Project Chanology. The problem being, it may never, ever be clear which actions being accused as a False Flag Operation actually were, especially since being Anonymous is rather easy by definition, and anything evil Anonymous does could just as easily be For the Evulz, especially since there's no group hierarchy, and members of Anonymous could do things without having broad support

So should we really be into spreading rumors put out anonymous criminal organizations about religious groups they don't like? I don't think so.

Even more examples are simply bad:

  • Armed ships in disguise as civilian merchant ships were used in both world wars to engage u-boats and Japanese subs. Merchant ships (called Q-ships) retrofitted with heavy armament would lure subs to the surface before revealing their guns and blasting the delicate submarines. (At the time torpedoes were expensive and unreliable, so subs would surface and use their deck guns to shell defenseless merchantmen.)

No, that is not a false flag operation unless you are flying the flag of another nation.

edited 30th Jul '13 12:38:25 PM by Catbert

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1569: Jul 30th 2013 at 5:39:33 PM

^ I obviously didn't put enough thought into my cleaning. Now that you mention those issues they do look problematic.

—-

Anyway, calling Wizarding School - Added 20th Jul '13 at 01:15:42 PM, 2.4:1 (17 total votes).

(The reason I didn't call it right away was because for a while it was hovering at 2:1, and given that there was some contention as to applicability I thought calling it exactly at the boundary for NRLEPing was a bit dubious.)

All your safe space are belong to Trump
nemui10pm from outer space Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1570: Jul 30th 2013 at 8:34:52 PM

I Thought Everyone Could Do That - I'm not proposing a NRLEP, but could I cut down on the general "people with X ability tend to..." examples? You can say that about any ability, so I don't think it's worth mentioning. Specific instances of people with said ability who didn't realise it was unique can stay.

A genius, a philosopher, an abstract thinker
Someoneman Since: Nov, 2011
#1571: Jul 31st 2013 at 4:58:57 PM

Nobody seems to have noticed my post that What Could Have Been's Religion And Technology section still has Real Life Examples. Do I just add it to the cut list?

edited 31st Jul '13 4:59:38 PM by Someoneman

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1572: Aug 1st 2013 at 1:28:42 AM

A couple of the religion examples ought to go on their own subpage.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SmytheOrdo Wide Eyed Wonderman from In The Mountains Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Wide Eyed Wonderman
#1573: Aug 1st 2013 at 10:13:21 PM

Hopeless War- Natter Magnet and has too great a potential for a flame war to brew over politics.

David Bowie 1947-2016
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1574: Aug 1st 2013 at 11:51:35 PM

Yeah, that doesn't look like something that needs an RL section. Adding it to the crowner.

—-

Also, while I'm here:

Calling Sealed Evil in a Can - Added 29th Jul '13 at 05:13:47 PM, 14:1 (15 total)

All your safe space are belong to Trump
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1575: Aug 2nd 2013 at 12:02:50 AM

I really don't like that "has the potential" argument. It pretty much always defeats itself, since it say that nothing actually has happened, despite there being a potential for it. It's not better than a red paint argument. I'm judging on what I see, not what I could see if I squint and put my head sideways, or just imagine stuff up and pretend they're there.

On the other hand, there's a bit of natter, and Pyrrhic Victory, which is rather closely related, has [noreallife].

edited 2nd Aug '13 12:04:24 AM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!

Projects: Long Term/Perpetual: Real Life Section Maintenance
20th Sep '25 9:57:50 AM

Crown Description:

Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep.

Anything marked DONE has been resolved.

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Total posts: 16,914
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