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Real Life section maintenance (including NRLEP and LRLEO) (New Crowner 9/20/25)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.

As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag no longer works. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. Per word of admin as of 2025, any replacement for this system will not use markup, so these tags can be removed.
  • If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the staff to add the trope via this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2025 at 6:31:00 AM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#11251: Apr 21st 2022 at 8:29:49 AM

In the TRS thread for CIA Evil, FBI Good, making the trope NRLEP was proposed because it's a morality trope about real life government organizations.

Edit: I removed A-Cup Angst and Blue-and-Orange Morality from KRLE since we overturned those decisions.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 21st 2022 at 10:31:38 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11252: Apr 21st 2022 at 8:31:20 AM

From the RL section:

  • Any Latin-American leftist worth their salt will easily point out the many, many, many instances of the CIA being instrumental in setting up dictatorships all over the world in general and Latin America in particular.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11254: Apr 21st 2022 at 8:38:01 AM

Another possible violation:

  • The CIA has gotten some controversy throughout its history from time to time. Some of its agents and staff have also played up the agency's reputation for ruthlessness whenever necessary, the better to intimidate adversaries and discourage informants from turning on or deceiving them.

FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#11255: Apr 21st 2022 at 8:42:31 AM

[up] Citation needed, since Wikipedia is not a valid source. The article it points to is also overly broad, and it's once again a general example.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Hello83433 (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#11258: Apr 21st 2022 at 9:54:03 AM

It's a MoralityTrope, and having real examples of CIA is evil is just asking for trouble.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#11259: Apr 21st 2022 at 3:56:36 PM

Morton's Fork devolves into bashing political or otherwise controversial topics in the second half of the page.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Apr 21st 2022 at 6:59:59 AM

Once Upon A Time.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#11260: Apr 22nd 2022 at 2:35:48 AM

[up] I've cut the Van Allen Belts entry, as that's just straight-up conspiracy nonsense.

2025: the year it all ends?
GiantCicada from Washington Since: Jun, 2019
#11261: Apr 22nd 2022 at 2:47:52 AM

With Blue-and-Orange Morality being NRLEP, should we look at cutting these examples from the Mythology and Religion folder?

    Mythology and Religion 
  • To an extent, this tends to happen when dealing with religious and spiritual matters that one may not be affiliated or familiar with. When an outside perspective is perplexed by the perceived arbitrariness and/or contradiction of a belief, a commonly given answer is that the higher powers aren't easily understood and also that the problem is most likely on our end. Thus the best we can do is listen to them and hope for the best. This also comes up in response to the common question of why, in a universe believed to be controlled by a benevolent force, bad things happen to good people. Many philosophies and religions recognize that the needs and wants of an individual and the needs of the universe at large will conflict, and a transcendent being likely isn't exclusively concerned with the former. So while one person might see another's Power(s) That Be as needlessly cruel for an action that doesn't sit with well with them, that other person would say that it is the right thing to do from their own and their divine entity's standpoint.
  • At least in older stories (before pop culture made them rather Disney-fied and cute), this is usually one of the defining traits of The Fair Folk. Fairies obsess over seemingly trivial things that may mean nothing to us, and may perform acts of overwhelming kindness or barbarous cruelty for reasons that seem nonsensical to mortals.
    • In some stories, one way of recognizing a fairy disguised as a human is that their emotional reactions may make no sense to us, laughing at tragic things and crying at happy ones. And then remember some theories that "changelings" were autistic children before we knew what autism was...
    • A common story has a poor man notice that fairies come to perform work every night (such as fixing clothes, making boots, sorting grains, etc.). In gratitude, he leaves the fairies something to eat or to wear. The next evening, the fairies come in, notice the reward, then declare that they've been paid more than enough for their work, and never come again. Alternately, they may take great offense at the reward and either never come again, or worse, hex the man out of anger and spite.
  • In the Mahabharata the river goddess Ganga bears King Shantanu several children...and drowns them. When he gives her a What the Hell, Hero?, she explains that it's Not What It Looks Like. The children are reincarnations of holy souls that need to transcend reincarnation (they committed a minor offense in a past life, and so were forced to be reincarnated as mortals, so Ganga lets that happen, and then kills them while they're still young and innocent so they can be released from reincarnation). Because she knew that there was no way King Shantanu would be able to comprehend this, she had asked him to never question her...and since he just did, she left him shortly afterwards.
    • This is all a result of Brahma's curse to Shantanu in the latter's previous life. All the gods had gathered for a ritual when Ganga's clothes were blown away by the wind. The gods averted their eyes but Shantanu ogled at her. Brahma cursed him that he would marry Ganga and she would break his heart.
    • If it is any consolation, however, that eighth child turns out to become the legendary Bhishma, who was blessed with wish-long life and had sworn to serve the ruling Kuru king, and grand-uncle of both the Pandavas and the Kauravas. Long story short, when Bhishma died, he was the eldest living ancestor to the equivalent of 5 generations of the Pandava line, and was strong enough to overcome even Arjuna in battle.
  • Aztec Mythology:
    • The Aztec views of what was good and what was evil were rather alien to the sensibilities to the Spanish conquistadors. Even when offering non-human sacrifices, such as food or goods, the Aztecs would draw their own blood in offering along with the sacrifice. As for human sacrifices, being a sacrifice was considered a high honor, despite the (to the European perspective) incredibly dishonorable things done to their body after their death (which normally involved public display followed by dismemberment and cannibalism). Indeed, being sacrificed was the only surefire way to get inducted into the "best" Aztec heaven. Your afterlife was based not on how you lived, but how you died, and none of those afterlives could be considered truly hellish. And, in spite of the war and sacrifices, a lot of Aztec society was pretty progressive. They treated their slaves well, and they're one of the first societies that had compulsory education for EVERYONE, not just the upper class. All that being said, the Aztecs were an anomaly even among Mesoamericans. Most of their neighbors were also horrified. One of the reasons the Spanish conquest succeeded was that practically all the Aztec's neighbors turned on them when they saw a chance to overthrow them — the endless drive for human sacrifice playing a large part.
    • The Aztec view of good and evil was considered strange even by neighboring groups with similar cultures and religious systems. Most of their neighbors thought they'd gone off the deep end when it came to human sacrifice. While blood sacrifices were ubiquitous in the region (and sometimes consisted of just blood drawn through specially-inflicted wounds), the Aztecs were known to wage wars for the purpose of acquiring sacrificial victims, and on some particularly important occasions, would sacrifice thousands of people in a single day.
  • Probably one of the most extreme examples is the Borborite Gnostic sect, assuming the reports of their existence aren't demonization by mainstream Christians. Imagine having a pretty standard Christian mindset...except that you think that the true version of the Eucharist entails eating semen, menstrual blood and children extracted from pregnant women.
  • In terms of Christianity/The Bible and Islam,/The Qur'an God and Satan Are Both Jerks can easily be an example of this as well, not to mention an inversion of the same. Christianity itself lends to these interpretations. Think about it: While God is associated with charity and salvation, he also preaches homophobia, genocide, misogyny, collectivism, and toxic positivitynote . Meanwhile, Satan teaches excess, gluttony, and abuse, but also knowledge, enterprise, and initiative. Considering most humans would find good and evil in both figures, but both are believed to be consistent, it's this trope.

I think the examples about The Fair Folk and the Mahabharata can stay, but the other examples seem to be describing the beliefs of real people as Blue-and-Orange Morality instead of occurrences of the trope within a myth.

Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Veteran Editor IV
#11262: Apr 22nd 2022 at 3:04:32 AM

[mistake double]

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 22nd 2022 at 12:05:15 PM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Veteran Editor IV
#11263: Apr 22nd 2022 at 3:04:58 AM

You should not delete things without an edit reason, no matter how bad you think they are or even if the thread agrees, as people can't know without it. Seriously, stop please.

As for Mythology and Religion, I agree with your assessment.

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#11264: Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:06:56 AM

[up][up][up]The first two can definitely go as Examples Are Not General. The "a lot of stories are like this" type wording is needlessly vague, weaselly and if taken literally can be used to shoehorn any old example in. Too many of those kind of examples is generally a sign that the RL section needs a look at.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#11265: Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:13:44 AM

Adding CIA Evil, FBI Good to crowner as there seems to be consensus to do so.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#11266: Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:20:11 AM

[up] You double-added it, can you edit one to mark it as a duplicate?

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#11267: Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:30:41 AM

Apologies, fixed (FYI anyone can edit them after being added). Scratch that, was incorrect.

Edited by laserviking42 on Apr 22nd 2022 at 12:57:57 PM

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#11268: Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:56:12 AM

Only mods and the user who added the crowner item can edit them. Anyone can "revert" crowner options via crowner history though.

Macron's notes
RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#11269: Apr 22nd 2022 at 7:58:52 PM

I found this on Fanfic Fuel:

  • This trope can be found in the Mueller Report of all things. People have written political parody "fan fiction" and even a mad lib concerning what exactly is under the various Censor Boxes in the report.

Can Fanfic Fuel have real life examples?

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#11270: Apr 22nd 2022 at 8:53:06 PM

That's actually a good question, normally I would define fanfic as stories featuring intellectual properties the writers don't actually own/have the rights to.

However, historical figures aren't someone else's creation, so I could publish a story about Mueller and a resurrected FDR fighting crime on a Martian moonbase without any legal hassle (crimes against good taste notwithstanding).

I could argue that using real life people in a story doesn't actually make it fanfic at all, but I know little about fanfic and so would love to hear other thoughts.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
delayedboom she/her Since: Sep, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
she/her
#11271: Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:04:22 PM

[up] I believe we have Real-Person Fic, which includes examples of real-world politics fanfiction. Though there is the 1% of RPF where the line between that and Historical Domain Character are hard to distinguish.

Edited by delayedboom on Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:05:06 AM

We don't sweep with a broom, no~
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#11272: Apr 23rd 2022 at 12:12:47 AM

Calling One-Steve Limit. Secret Test of Character will have to wait two more day before being called since the ratio is exactly 2:1, so I can't call it yet; it'll have to wait until the 25th before being called.

Edit: I took care of One-Steve Limit's cuts and indexing.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 23rd 2022 at 2:15:12 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#11273: Apr 23rd 2022 at 6:04:37 AM

In its description, Fanfic Fuel says that it applies to creative works. This would seem to exclude RL content like the Mueller Report, although I'm sure there are some people out there who would claim that it was fictional.

More broadly, and as already noted, fan fiction cannot arise from reality because it fails the test of being unlicensed. Of course, there's nothing stopping you from writing a story about Mueller and posting it on fanfiction.net, but this is still a grey area and not one that I think we should be playing around with.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#11274: Apr 23rd 2022 at 7:24:24 AM

America Won World War II has a hidden footnote:

%%
%% No Real Life, please.[[admin]]
%%
Instead of beibg indexed by No Real Life Examples, Please!.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#11275: Apr 23rd 2022 at 4:32:50 PM

fan fiction cannot arise from reality because it fails the test of being unlicensed.

Barring Real-Person Fic, I guess.

The Mueller report thing sounds more like a general breeding ground for speculation. Maybe it's worth crownering Fanfic Fuel as "narrative trope."

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Projects: Long Term/Perpetual: Real Life Section Maintenance
20th Sep '25 9:57:50 AM

Crown Description:

Vote UP to cut real life examples; vote DOWN to keep.

Anything marked DONE has been resolved.

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP or LRLEO index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

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