Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
Blapper of Water
Gacy would be more a "subversion" or "inversion" if that's possible. The clown costume was attractive rather than scary and he himself was a monster.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No, the other one.
Calling him evil in an example is not allowed. I usually define what we can call evil by, "not even Hitler". It's morality. A big, fat NO on that for real people.
Anyway, I don't see a problem per se about allowing real examples of Monster Clown, but I do see a problem judging people as monsters based on it. In other words, only if it's something deliberate. Which probably would count as a stage persona, which isn't real anyway. Maybe it would work if something was genuinely scary (as opposed to evil), but I'd be careful about not pointing fingers with examples like that.
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Blapper of Water
Okay but calling him a monster at all is appropriate as he was a serial killer. Like let's not be overzealous with the "don't call people evil on the wiki" policy.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No, the other one.
No. Let's not break rules because you want to just this once.
Check out my fanfiction!
On TearJerker.Sponge Bob Square Pants, there are examples relating to Stephen Hillenburg and Ernest Borgine's deaths. I had removed previous examples by different posters, so I'm unsure if it would qualify as edit warring.
Blapper of Water
It is not breaking the rules to call someone a monster in the forums. What are you even trying to argue.
The example listed on MonsterClown.Real Life ought to treat his use of the clown image as an inversion, as he used the clown image to make himself look more normal and charming in order to lure people to their deaths. He used it as an attractive costume rather than a scary or intimidating one.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No, the other one.
I don't care what people say on the forums. We've never had rules about that, common courtesy to other tropers aside. Obviously that's not what I was referring to. I even said so explictly, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing the forums up like you have some sort of actual point.
That specific example is not an inversion since it's just the regular portrayal of a clown as a cheerful jokester.
Check out my fanfiction!
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
The trope for traditional portrayals of clowns is Non-Ironic Clown. As previously mentioned, this isn't an inversion of Monster Clown.
Edit: Also, I agree with AnotherDuck regarding the subject of calling real people evil, and I also don't see what the forums have to do with a wiki page.
Edit: Might as well respond to costanton's Tear Jerker post. Tear Jerker is already NRLEP, so examples that are directly about real people, such as the death of creators, are already forbidden.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 23rd 2018 at 12:14:57 PM
You can't always get what you want.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Since I deleted an earlier instance of listing real life deaths on that page, is it ok if I do it again?
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
If you want to avoid edit warring, bringing it up on Ask The Tropers first might be a better idea.
ATT thread here.
Terminally Dependent Society has a ton of questionable example indentations, and most likely also natter.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work makes Jack a mere boy
Nope. There is a lot of natter.
Should I add it to the crowner?
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work makes Jack a mere boy
The crowner is not even working well. It is better to debate whether the trope should have the ban on real life examples.
I'm leaning toward proposing a ban on real life examples for that trope for being a natter magnet.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work makes Jack a mere boy
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
While not calling any real life people evil, the real life section of Ultimate Evil feels like shoehorning:
- Depression. An incomprehensible force of destruction that exists only within your own mind, taking away from you everything you were or could be that prevents you from experiencing life itself the way it was meant to be lived. This monstrosity cannot even be seen, and understanding exactly what it is is difficult even for Depression victims, leading many to attempt to describe it using metaphors, or to not describe it at all. As if that wasn't bad enough, Depression has even been suggested to attack your physical body as well, resulting in an unnatural cold and possibly even the immune system itself shutting down. If this isn't as close as it gets to Ultimate Evil in reality...
- Other Mental Illnesses could qualify here as well. Basically anything that corrupts your understanding of reality, that cannot be seen or even comprehended, is pretty terrifying...
No, the other one.
I removed it. Depression doesn't have a morality.
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he/him | Image Pickin' regular
The page should probably be NRLEP as an evil trope.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Blapper of Water
It's not broke, so there's nothing to fix. Moreover, we were just discussing that we ought to judge each trope on its own, rather than by what group it can be categorized in. Ultimate Evil shouldn't preemptively be made NRLEP.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Let's make Ultimate Evil NRLEP just so that we don't get real world people in there.
No, the other one.
There never were real people there. There was a mental sickness. The problem was a plain misuse, not breaking any RL example rules we have.
Ain't broke; don't fix.
Check out my fanfiction!
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
If real life examples consist solely of misuse, the best thing to do is remove the bad examples without adding the NRLEP restriction. This has been done before.
That example was garbage. Depression is nasty, but it's not the "incomprehensible force of destruction" it was claimed to be. The NRLEP restriction is for when example sections get problematic, not when a small amount of nonsense ends up on a page.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 7th 2019 at 1:58:53 PM
You can't always get what you want.
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
I'd question the Gacy example on the grounds that Gacy wasn't so much a Monster Clown as much as a clown that was also a monster. Although if memory serves he did use the clown facade to lure his victims in in some instances; the luring just was not the main point of the clown thing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman