Michael, pagad, Octo, and Bat Pencil have this. There is no punishment more suitable than letting him out of prison in thirty years to see how insignificant his outburst of hatred was. No punishment more suitable, and no justice more befitting the memory of his victims.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.I'd say just kill him.
There is something legitimately wrong when your sentence doesn't involve doing a minimum of one year for each person you killed. I can see why there's the minimum sentence in Norway, not picking on that, but if I kill 40 people, I deserve at least 40 years. It's disrespectful to the victims and their loved ones to just let him walk free after a paltry sentence.
Besides, this isn't one of those "Oh what if he's innocent!" death penalty situations. The guy wants to die, definitely committed the crime, and definitely deserved it. If he wants to be hung, then I say just hang him. Then you aren't paying for his 3 hots and a cot for the rest of his life and you never have to worry about him doing something like this again.
Spree killers like Breivik aren't redeemable. There's no amount of good things he could do to atone for what he's done.
The thing is Norway hasn't had the Dealth Penalty in years — the last time it was used (with Special Legislation to do so) was with Quisling after World War II.
Breivik definately isn't Quisling.
Keep Rolling On![]()
I can actually see your point, but in order for that to be possible, Norway would have to reform its entire legal system, leave the Council of Europe in the process and go against their entire public philosophy. If they did that, that would mean giving Breivik a measure of success, by causing all those changes. Instead, Norway carries on, showing Breivik how insignificant he is.
edited 21st Apr '12 6:43:04 AM by Octo
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficAgain, he doesn't want to die. He just views the death penalty as the only other acceptable response to what he has done apart from acquittal. He's a fanatic who presumes death to be the only logical consequence of his actions, but he does not wish to die - rather, he sees the system as broken because it will not indulge the prospect. The distinction is subtle, but significant.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.Yeah. And hence reintroducing the death penalty on his account would only be serving his ideology. It would make the massacre a partial success. This just can't be.
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficThe state shouldn't declare anyone insane without first proving that they are insane. That's how the Soviet Union dealt with dissidents. It's not exactly a worthy example to follow.
edited 21st Apr '12 6:47:15 AM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.@Pagad
To be honest, I agree with him on that point.
I was talking about possibly running special legislation as an exception.
Screw the council of Europe. The idea that you can't be a member if you haven't abolished the death penalty is absolute nonsense. Some people just need to die.
It's a catch 22 I suppose. I actually agree with Breivik on his opinions of the Norwegian justice system. On the other hand I don't want to see the ends of someone like that receive even partial success.
edited 21st Apr '12 6:51:59 AM by Barkey
Also, "special legislation"? What, like a bill of attainer?
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If the medical definition of sociopathy is considered a mental illness, then yes. Otherwise, no.
He won't be shown shit. The Norwegian justice system is soft as all hell. Letting mass murderers get only 21 years is absolute horseshit. That isn't justice, it's limp wristed lip service to justice.
Not to mention it's dangerous. The way Breivik can "win" is if he settles in for the long haul, does his 21 years as a model inmate, and then kills again. Then it shows a lack of social responsibility on the part of the State, and some sort of caveat for psychos like him gets put into place.
edited 21st Apr '12 6:55:53 AM by Barkey
There isn't an objective way to judge that, Harold Shipman murdered 300 old people in my country but we didn't call for him to fry. Nah, the coward took his own life instead and maybe Breivik will do the same.
Edit:
Tone it down Barkely, you have no right to judge how soft a society is
edited 21st Apr '12 6:55:03 AM by whaleofyournightmare
Dutch LesbianBreivik wants to either be set free (which he knows wont happen) or martyred - in his twisted mind, he thinks that he's proving a point about how "weak" Norway is for not killing someone like him. He shouldn't be indulged in this nor given the satisfaction of going to his death thinking that he's won a victory.
You know how at the end of The Dark Knight, when Batman says "but Joker cannot win"? This is the kind of situation the movie was talking about. The values that Norway - and Europe - hold cannot bend for someone like this. They have to be stronger and worth more than the actions of a murderer.
And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)Just arrange it so he gets killed by an inmate. Everybody wins.
^^
I can judge who I damn well please. As a cop I've seen people do some horrible things. Things that landed them a deserved sentence of well over 21 years that pale in comparison to what Breivik did.
edited 21st Apr '12 6:57:38 AM by Barkey
x whatever: Ah, but here's the thing: according to him, he does have empathy, and had to train for months to deprive himself of it for his rampage.
edited 21st Apr '12 6:57:29 AM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.Norway should not change anything on account of this man. The possibility of keeping him indefinitely detained is already there, so if that is what's necessary, it's not like it can't be done under the current legal framework. I'm definitely not against doing that, this is a special case, I don't believe rehabilitation is really possible and the risk of letting him out is likely to high.
I like how some Americans on here are so ferociously against this "soft" justice system of Norway's, when Norway, with this system, have far better statistical results when it comes to things like recidivism rates than America. Why should they change it for a "tough" system like the US, which has demonstrably more shitty results? I find the death penalty wrong, as do most other people in Scandinavia, no way in hell should it be reinstated for this one special case, it would be the height of hypocrisy and it would be paramount to conceding defeat.
I support my neighbours to the north and I hope they will continue to stand up for what they believe in, in the face of adversity, god knows we could use some of that spirit in Denmark.
edited 21st Apr '12 7:17:27 AM by Mathias
The United States has a backward-looking culture when it comes to crime. By which I mean not that it belongs to a bygone era (though it does), but that we tend to view cases in terms of "What did this person do? What do they deserve for that? Let the punishment fit the crime!" Whereas Norway, it seems, is forward-looking: "What is this person or other people likely to do in the future if we handle them this way as opposed to that way? Let the punishment fit the results we want."
I hate Anders Breivik as much as one person can hate anyone they've never met. He's scum. I guess I would agree that he "deserves" to die (although I dislike that word) or to rot in prison forever. But I do not believe the safety and social health of the Norwegian people is best served by changing their system to be more in line with what he considers justice. What good does it do to get rid of Breivik if it means an entire society shifts toward his point of view?
edited 21st Apr '12 7:48:40 AM by Karalora

Yeah, when I saw all the coverage in the media I was honestly kinda reminded uncomfortably of Hitler's trial, and how much popularity he won there... but as I've said, Breivik seems to get thoroughly taken apart, so it seems to be all good.
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