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The trial of Anders Breivik

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breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#26: Apr 21st 2012 at 1:36:43 AM

Actually I think he did more of a political struggle salute which is more insulting. Anyway, I suppose the main thing is that the Norweigan system does allow for jailing beyond 21 years and seeing as how he is being very unrepentive, he'll like be denied exit from jail based on that.

whaleofyournightmare Decemberist from contemplation Since: Jul, 2011
Decemberist
#27: Apr 21st 2012 at 1:56:26 AM

A sentence of 21 years for killing as many people as Breivik

If he is deemed to be a public threat, they cab lock him up indefinitely

Dutch Lesbian
Cassie The armored raven from Malaysia, but where? Since: Feb, 2011
The armored raven
#28: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:37:10 AM

I believe the people of Norway are basically pledging the law system to go merciless on him. Why show him any mercy when he didn't for kids? Breivik is a Complete Monster, end of story. A racist, fascist and fanatic one at that

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#29: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:55:01 AM

So lock him up. Let him wither and die. Laugh at him every day as he sees how all he did for his cause was throw it under the bus. Let him fade into obscurity so everyday he knows he accomplished nothing.

I can't think of a more fitting punishment. A few decades to realize how little he is.

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Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#30: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:55:06 AM

The only reason anyone remembers Gary Gilmore is that he demanded the USA execute him and the USA has continued to execute people ever since. Breivik would love that kind of historical status so I say he can't have it.

Cassie The armored raven from Malaysia, but where? Since: Feb, 2011
The armored raven
#31: Apr 21st 2012 at 3:10:14 AM

[up]Did he get remembered as a hero for all gun owners out there? Sure no!

Breivik is the same. He won't be remembered as anything other than a monster

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#32: Apr 21st 2012 at 3:27:29 AM

[up]Gilmore isn't remembered as a monster. He should be, but he's remembered as a man who changed America's legal system for his own ends. Most people remember that bit about him but couldn't tell you what crimes he was convicted of.

Breivik wants to be executed so he can count future executions as his own victims. No.

Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#33: Apr 21st 2012 at 3:41:47 AM

sadIts trials and cases like this that show the weakness of modern justice systems.

An old fashioned lynch mob would have solved this problem quicker and with less cost.

edited 21st Apr '12 3:44:22 AM by Natasel

pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#34: Apr 21st 2012 at 4:11:43 AM

weakness of modern justice systems

Norway has one of the lowest rates of crime and recidivism in the world. As someone said earlier, clearly they are doing something right. Statistics prove that what they are doing does more to reduce crime rates than more brutal criminal justice systems.

The Norwegian prime minister has, by the way, declared that Norway's response to this massacre should be "...more democracy, more openness and greater political participation".

edited 21st Apr '12 4:12:29 AM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#35: Apr 21st 2012 at 4:18:39 AM

[up] Norway's low crime rate may be the cause of their weak/soft justice system.

Not much use improving a strong/harsh justice system if there isn't much crime to deal with.

Anders Breivik was not a problem they could have anticipated.

Like a snow storm in a desert. A true WTF specimen.

edited 21st Apr '12 4:22:27 AM by Natasel

IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#36: Apr 21st 2012 at 4:46:41 AM

An old fashioned lynch mob would have solved this problem quicker and with less cost.

And give him the martyrdom that he craves for so much?

Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#37: Apr 21st 2012 at 4:49:49 AM

[up] Martyr to WHO?

Let death take him and be done with it. 91 died because 1 lived. Lets not continue the mistake.

edited 21st Apr '12 4:52:58 AM by Natasel

IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#38: Apr 21st 2012 at 4:54:31 AM

[up] Martyr to whatever crazy ideology that he believes in.

It is obvious that he wants death. He wants to be killed by those he regarded as his enemies. He wants to die for his cause. Killing him will just be giving him exactly what he wants.

Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#39: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:02:07 AM

[up] Seriously? After all he did, what he wants is something to think about?

Meh, he can believe what he wants when he's dead.

edited 21st Apr '12 5:03:44 AM by Natasel

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:09:42 AM

[up]The guy wasn't just crazy with his very own hand-tailored ideology. He was a right-extremist. There are still plenty of those in the world, and Breivik would, indeed, become a martyr to them if he were to die with any kind of a 'bang', inspiring them to do similar deeds.

It's kind of what happened with Islamic terrorism.

edited 21st Apr '12 5:10:27 AM by Kayeka

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#41: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:17:54 AM

[up][up]When somebody is trying to manipulate you, it is important to consider what they want you to do and why they want you to do it. He wants to be executed because it will kill more people and further his fascist ideologies. So that's not going to happen.

Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#42: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:17:57 AM

It can be argued just as easily that NOT killing him will send a message that Norway is weak and will not "martyr" you so its a safe place to kill 91 people.

Islamic Terrorism. As long as the rate of martyrs being created is faster than the rate of Islamic Terrorists being born, it seems to be a problem that will be solved eventually.

[up] Sounds like Reverse Psychology.

edited 21st Apr '12 5:20:22 AM by Natasel

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#43: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:19:41 AM

[up]That was what the Romans thought about Jesus.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#44: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:19:52 AM

And if they execute him, despite not being part of the law, said right elements will throw around the "it was revenge not justice!" argument for DECADES.

Best way to deal with people like that is to give them NO special treatment whatsoever. Prosecute him to the extend of the law but not an inch farther.

[up][up] And it can also be argued that killing him because of not appearing "soft" is not related to his crimes and would therefore be an act of injustice. Even Complete Monsters have rights. Politics have to stay outside of a trial.

As for the lynch mob arguments. Gee. A bob based purely on rage and revenge. No appeals. No innocent until proven guilty. Sorry, I do prefer modern systems. And if you have those you have to apply them to EVERYONE.

edited 21st Apr '12 5:27:57 AM by 3of4

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pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#45: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:26:41 AM

He doesn't want to be executed. He wants to be acquitted, but sees the death penalty as the only other legitimate response to his actions.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
GiantRobots ELBOW ROCKET ENGAGED from Victoria Harbour Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
ELBOW ROCKET ENGAGED
#46: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:29:15 AM

Death is too good for him. Being "declared insane", is a fate worse than death, he says.

You publicly humiliate him first by declaring him insane, then you stick him in a nice padded cell with a straitjacket where he'll be locked up but treated humanely.

The legal psychiatrists say he's an "extreme narcissist". Being declared insane will probably mentally shatter him, even make him stark raving mad. He might attempt suicide, but of course the asylum has safeguards against that.

Eventually he'll probably starve himself or something to try to prove his point, and eventually die humiliated, in pain, and insane.

Doesn't seem like it'll happen, though.

pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#47: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:34:19 AM

Being driven insane by the state is not an outcome I would be comfortable condoning.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Talby Since: Jun, 2009
#48: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:39:42 AM

Definitely a "throw away the key" scenario. We'll see how smug he looks after 50 years behind bars.

Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#49: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:55:20 AM

Norway's low crime rate may be the cause of their weak/soft justice system.

Not much use improving a strong/harsh justice system if there isn't much crime to deal with.

Maybe you can switch causality regarding the crime, but there's also the fact that Norway has the world's lowest recidivism rate. And that just has to be an effect of the justice and prison system. So Norway is doing something right. Indeed, not only right, but best in the world.

Now, of course, that's for day-to-day crime, so to say. Breivik is an entirely different category. As some of you might know, heh, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of revenge, and to using the juidical system to carry out revenge in well ordered ways. However... in this trial it might indeed be best to prove how wrong Breivik is, instead of taking physical revenge. And by all accounts, the prosecutor is doing a really admirable job at that, tearing apart Breivik's self-image as a leading member of a European crusader movement - something that most likely doesn't exist. So she really drills down the fact that basically Breivik is just a pathetic, failed existence using delusions of grandeur as escapism. A complete monster, that goes without saying, but also just plain pathetic. And the trial driving that point home might have a better effect than any death penalty for Breivik.

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TheBatPencil from Glasgow, Scotland Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#50: Apr 21st 2012 at 6:11:01 AM

What I don't like about this is the openness of the coverage of the trial. Putting people like Brevik in front of a television camera is just asking him to do something as ridiculous as a white power salute or say the most offensive thing he can think of.

He shouldn't be given the time of day to air his lunatic views to the world as though he's worth listening to. It's an open and shut case of locking up a sociopathic mass-murderer for the rest of his life, not the political debate that he and people like him want to turn it into.

The Norwegian prime minister has, by the way, declared that Norway's response to this massacre should be "...more democracy, more openness and greater political participation".

<3 Norway <3

The crux of the matter is that Brevik is not a political activist or anything of the sort, but a murderer and nothing more. Norway's way of doing things cannot change because of someone like him, it has to be proven that their way of doing things works and will continue to work despite him.

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

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