TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Go To

The sub-forum is used for discussions that adjudicate possible violations of The Content Policy. Threads here can be created by flagging a page through the sidebar "report" button and toggling "The page may violate the Content Policy".

This thread is for general discussion of pages.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 10th 2022 at 11:50:32 AM

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#13576: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:50:26 PM

Just imagine the sheer audacity of inserting a disclaimer like this while that same boy is constantly having oral sex with everything that moves and has XX chromosome.

What tropes are from the anime. So we can move the page their.

I don't really have a clue. Like, most of the woldbuilding stuff is probably in there, but the exact contents of the plot arcs that anime covered vs didn't are beyond my skimming.

Edited by Adannor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:51:28 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#13577: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:22:34 PM

I know this probably isn’t gonna get anywhere, but why the hell is Tsugumomo getting outright cut while Cuties still has a page?! And unlocked, at that?!

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#13578: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:30:28 PM

Dude. That is not an acceptable tone to take when asking something like that.

If you want to know why a decision was taken, ask, but don't come in here making demands, especially in your first post.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#13579: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:35:36 PM

[up][up] Tsugumomo's manga regularly features underage girls in full frontal nudity with visible nipples and only a whisp of Censor Steam for coverage down below. And then they engage in vigorous on-panel cunnilingus.

That's far ahead of what Cuties has.

Edited by Adannor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:39:32 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#13580: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:41:56 PM

And the close-up crotch shots and twerking in Cuties, even if not as extreme, somehow aren’t pedo-pandering?

Look, I don’t really care about Tsugu, and I’m not trying to defend it. I am just trying to understand why Cuties isn’t being subject to the same policy.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#13581: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:48:48 PM

Cut Tsugumomo.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#13582: Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:02:40 PM

I think Cuties suffers from HORRENDOUS advertising; from what I've heard, the film itself isn't terrible.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#13583: Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:09:47 PM

As a matter of fact, the film itself takes the paedophilic nature of childhood dance groups, especially all girls groups, to absolute task and calls it out. The advertising was terrible, but the film itself is meant to call it all out as gross. Tsugumomo, on the other hand, plays it for straight pornography. Very distinct difference.

[down] For the record, I still hate the movie - but intent does matter here, and that's the only difference I was explaining. I'm justifying nothing, only explaining.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 5:26:57 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#13584: Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:13:19 PM

So it’s okay to sexualize little girls to stop the sexualization of little girls? Regardless of what the intention was, the fact that those shots are shown at all concerns me.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:14:05 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#13585: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:15:09 PM

Look, it's a combination of factors.

Cuties is openly available via mainstream distribution methods.
It is trying to play the sexualisation for drama while Tsugumomo is throwing it in just for funsies.
Using real actors does earn Cuties some extra creep points.
But acts depicted in Tsugumomo are far more explicit.

So it adds up to Tsugumomo being more cuttable in this aspect overall in my opinion.

Edited by Adannor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:23:36 PM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#13586: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:27:18 PM

Also, Cuties is already on the reports list, so it's guaranteed to be evaluated eventually, which you'd see if you went back just a couple of pages and saw Septimus's summary which mentioned the content issues in Cuties. Tsugomono wasn't on the report list, so people brought it up here instead. We can only discuss so many works at a time.

Personally I supported locking the Cuties page a while ago, but that's more because of the potential for complaining and because people were adding certain items too early, which isn't a problem now because it'll soon be six months since the film released here. I won't lose sleep if the page gets cut, but people need to calm down a bit when talking about it.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
#13587: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:30:47 PM

Agreed. We have evaluated and cut far worse things (literal CP like B*ku no P*co springs to mind).

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#13588: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:51:19 PM

So I was brought up for Tsugumomo and let me answer some questions. Here's the thing Tsugumomo isn't under the Japanese rating boards a hentai, there is hentai-like content but the depictions are never fully shown except for the censored version. Technically the things mentioned about the sketchiness of Tsugumomo are not violations enough to be considered labelled hentai. The censored version does still have lots of these elements though the graphical depictions is tone down. It might be a case where in some countries it would fall under pornography, but in Japan it does not.

Also technically, this is not something I feel the most comfortable with, but it's still worth noting age of consent of Japan is 13 which can give you an idea what standards they have with certain labels.

As for the story being just porn, I want to point out there's legit story in the manga, actually archs, character development, nuances, moving points to be classified as an official narrative. Yes there is definitely very ecchi elements place in the manga by the author, I say ecchi because those content you mentioned are shown in a way it does not violate regulations, which I can see why people might want this cut.

I think this is more of a case of different international standards, not to insult one or the other but the classifications are very different. By Japan's standards it's still under manga.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#13589: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:51:21 PM

Btw apparently theirs an officialy censored version of the manga. Should we check if that one is fine first hence the manga page would be kept to that only.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#13590: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:56:00 PM

I want to point out to the censored manga follows the Japanese standard which I won't deny still contain things people brought up here. However as mentioned this is fine to be distributed in Japan so take that as you will.

It also makes me wonder what is the standard here, because technically Tsugumomo does not violate the standards place by the country it's from. Does we go by one standard? International standard? This is a tricky discussion because this problem could be brought up again in the future.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#13591: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:01:25 PM

Japanese ratings do not excuse anything, we're operating pretty close to western standards.

Yes, the sex acts all have genitals blanked out or obscured, but they are still pretty explicit sex acts happening.

I could've maybe personally let it slide as having enough plot to balance out the pervyness if it wasn't pushing childlike characters into sex scenes.

The only English release of the manga mentioned on wikipedia is a super short run of just 2 volumens, anything plot related that happened in those would be covered by the anime anyway.

" Does we go by one standard? International standard? This is a tricky discussion because this problem could be brought up again in the future. "

If you want to get technically then the standard here is TVTropes own standard that is close to american standard but doesn't always automatically follow it. Some things that were deemed ok for western distribution have been cut.

Edited by Adannor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:03:38 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#13592: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:01:50 PM

We are a U.S. site; we apply U.S. standards. We may use other standards for reference, such as Europe's, but half of the reason for the content policy in the first place was all the fucked up shit coming out of Japan that a lot of people seem to feel entitled to.

Y'all can wank off to children all you want in private, just don't get it all over TV Tropes.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#13593: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:08:49 PM

So it's ultimately Western I understand, but I also feel a little off about that myself because it's not just Western culture found in this website and honestly I always thought this place followed a case-by-case interntional standard. If that's the case I understand, but I also wonder if that's really the best moving forward because this issue could come up in the future because the world is not gonna follow one standard, every country will have it's own which one side may not agree which again can cause confusion in the future.

I can understand seeing Tsugumomo as porn, but also it feels a little messy ignoring the country where it came from it isn't under the label when it is considered acceptable, even if very sketchy and disagreeable. Maybe I just read the censored version and yes there is sexual depictions, it is style of comedy that is accepted there even if you disagree, which the indication of an uncensored version shows it's a legit work in Japan.

I just want to bring it up because it is a discussion. Maybe because I'm not from the West, which I hope you understand, but it does feel a little too much like pushing your advocacy if we can only follow that standard. Not to say we don't get it, but we also don't completely see it the same way as you do and I hope you can respect that. Thank you.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#13594: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:13:24 PM

[up] The issue isn't whether Tsugumomo is porn or not. It's that it shows child and childlike characters involved in sex acts for little reason beyond titillation. Whether that's okay by its country of origin's standards isn't really relevant in comparison.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#13595: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:18:03 PM

[up][up] We absolutely prohibit explicit depictions of sexual acts by or with children. That's it. You don't have to like it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#13596: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:18:10 PM

Yeah we do have explicit works here. They just involve adults rather then kids.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#13597: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:23:01 PM

Very well if the decision is to cut it, ultimately that's your call. While even I disagree with some content of Tsugumomo, personally I read it for the fight scene, Kiriha is at least an entertaining heroine with an unique ability, and interesting world, I do want to make these points and hopefully none of these are ignored. If this is considered unacceptable that's alright.

I just wanted to bring up points because by definition Tsugumomo is not labelled as porn from where it's from, it's allowed to be distributed and seen acceptable. I just don't like the idea of labelling it under porn because of a single standard, when to others it's not and explain why it is. For me I can see why it can be labelled as such, but I also see the other side too.

I hope we manage to have a healthy discussion and understand where we both come from. It's ultimately your call but understand where I come from.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:24:09 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#13598: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:28:02 PM

Quick question do to some concerns of mine looking back; a few years ago I made a page for a fanfic called Regrets, and looking over this sites policies I want to know if it should be removed or not.

The story of the fic aside, there are two cases of underaged content; the protagonist is a teenager who was raped, by someone who was a legal adult; and later has sex with her girlfriend in a more romantic context. I think they mention her age to be 16, and the sex, while not graphic or drawn out, does have a bit of description to it. I just want to know if this goes against the sites standards.

Edited by Beast on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:30:51 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#13599: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:30:54 PM

If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and is full of blatant sexualization of underage characters like a duck

Also, the "age of consent at 13" thing isn't even true

[up] I think we just marked something with 16 year olds as safe, and we also don't mark CSA unless it's graphic/for titillation

Edited by Libraryseraph on Mar 2nd 2021 at 7:32:48 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#13600: Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:30:55 PM

I wonder if the anime page could stay, because technically that version is toned down it's closer to ecchi.

[up] Nationally it is but certain municipalities like Tokyo has a higher consent age with 18.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:32:33 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle

Total posts: 14,910
Top