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The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

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The sub-forum is used for discussions that adjudicate possible violations of The Content Policy. Threads here can be created by flagging a page through the sidebar "report" button and toggling "The page may violate the Content Policy".

This thread is for general discussion of pages.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 10th 2022 at 11:50:32 AM

Razorback Since: May, 2012
#3876: May 25th 2012 at 10:08:55 PM

The younger sister's got a scene much later on (I clicked at random, but I think it's one of the chapters in the 40's), and it says she's 15. There's also one with some kid I'd had pegged at 12-14, right before that, but I'm not sure what his actual age is.

edited 25th May '12 10:09:44 PM by Razorback

Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#3877: May 25th 2012 at 11:30:41 PM

Okay, covered the 1st 2 chapters.

EDITED for clarity. The guy is not related to the three sisters, and clarified some parts about the objectionable content which I might have understated.

The guy's 19 (I think), the sisters who run the inn are 23, 19 and 15 respectively. (There're a couple of remarks about the youngest sister not having entered puberty, but I can't tell if that's an insult or a fact since there are other remarks about her looking young.)

For offensive content, you get gratuitous nudity with nipples nearly every chapter, heavy petting about every other chapter (or more), sex without visible genitalia every few chapters. Most of it involves the main character and the middle sister. There are a couple of chapters' worth of nude scenes involving the younger sister and a sex scene involving another character around her age group.

Plot-wise, it's a Slice of Life series centering around a couples' onsen - it's marketed as being a place where couples go to get romantic / intimate. (Hence, I'm not going to use the Plot With Porn label - Slice of Life series don't exactly have that much of a plot anyway.) The main focus is on the developing relationship between the male lead and the middle sister.

It's serialised in Young Animal Arashi, which is a seinen publication (again, if the English Wiki is wrong, let me know). The same magazine runs manga ranging from Dominion Tank Police to Nana To Kaoru and My Balls.

Overall, given the sheer volume of the explicit content compared to the non-explicit, I'd think it qualifies as softcore porn (in accordance with the Wikipedia definition). Make what you will of that, given that stuff like My Balls survived previous cuts. *grumble*

edited 26th May '12 8:04:03 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#3878: May 25th 2012 at 11:38:21 PM

To clarify, are we talking about the male lead's sisters, or just three sisters who are not related to the guy they're romantically involved with?

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#3879: May 25th 2012 at 11:45:13 PM

Oh, sorry. They're not related to him. (Gosh, that was awkward.)

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
Sabbo Since: Jan, 2001
#3880: May 26th 2012 at 3:10:34 AM

Not that that should factor into your decisions anyway.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3881: May 26th 2012 at 4:00:53 AM

Not strictly speaking this topic, but on the discussion page of Permanent Red Link Club someone asked if pages cut by 5P go there. I said no under the understanding that it would turn PRLC into a list of porn and paedo-pornography and thus defeat the purpose of this policy, but someone said that it was incredibly confusing for other people why a work page is gone (and the tool has the same effect).

Feedback, please?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#3882: May 26th 2012 at 4:54:57 AM

That's the reason we made this. Looks perfectly understandable to me.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3883: May 26th 2012 at 5:45:06 AM

[up]I referred them to that, and made a sub-entry (not a list) in Permanent Red Link Club for the pages cut here.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
tdgoodrich1 R.I.P 2 My Youth from Atlanta Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
#3884: May 26th 2012 at 7:34:41 AM

Re: Koibana Onsen:

Finished the first volume. Lots of naked breasts. As of the 6th chapter, the youngest sister has been explicitly stated by her sisters to be prepubescent. Prior to that chapter I would have been fine with a clean-only, with curation. While the male lead pushed her off when she propositioned him, I would still deem it unacceptable. Feel free to disagree with me, but that is crossing the line, especially combined with all the previous softcore porn.

Verdict: Torch it

[down]@Pyrite: I don't disagree with cutting it on "porn" grounds. Think of the added pedoshit as finding a dead rat after falling into a sewer.

[down]@Arromdee: Calling "bullshit" on that. It was released in 2005, i.e. before The Google Incident. Also the translators did not use a certain "L" word in the translations. They said "She hasn't even hit puberty yet."

edited 26th May '12 8:13:36 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3885: May 26th 2012 at 7:43:44 AM

If it's a sexualized prepubescent girl, then it fits the accurate paedophilia-bait definitions to a T. Kill it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#3886: May 26th 2012 at 8:01:35 AM

[up][up]No objection, although for me it was more about the porn-ish content than the paedo-bait (since there's way too much of the former.) If they'd just left it at "15 years old" I might've classified that as borderline, which was why I raised that issue about the whole "puberty" bit.

edited 26th May '12 8:05:22 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
arromdee Since: Jan, 2001
#3887: May 26th 2012 at 8:04:11 AM

15 is not prepubescent, unless she has some sort of strange medical condition. If they say she is, it's probably a bad translation and they meant to say "not adult" or "not fully developed" or something similar. I'm pretty sure the translators didn't take care to get every word right so that the work wouldn't be banned on tvtropes.

Edit: This is especially so if the manga is a scanlation. I've seen fan translations that contain all sorts of strange errors. Just because the fan translation screwed up and happened to use a buzzword without meaning to doesn't make the work into pedo-pandering.

edited 26th May '12 8:11:11 AM by arromdee

tdgoodrich1 R.I.P 2 My Youth from Atlanta Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
#3888: May 26th 2012 at 8:24:09 AM

Correction from above: The scanlated chapter was released March of 2009, still before The Google Incident, not 2005 as previously stated.

[down]Thanks Pyrite. Always on top of things, aren't you?

edited 26th May '12 8:26:21 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#3889: May 26th 2012 at 8:24:27 AM

Even if it does turn out that it passes on grounds of paedo-baiting due to some very shoddy translating (and I'm going to check out the freaking raws just to make sure), I don't think it'll pass on grounds of porn. But then again... My Balls.

[up]Also, I think what he's trying to say is that the translators weren't going for accuracy and may have mistranslated that line - they couldn't have known about a TV Tropes policy, but they probably wouldn't have cared either way.

Second edit: Okay, going back to the issue of Koibana Onsen: The line from the raws reads, "まだ二次性徴始まってないもんな". Now, Kuro Bara Hime is probably this subforums's resident Japanese expert (relative to the rest of us), but with my limited knowledge of Japanese and Google Translate, this more or less translates to "you haven't started developing secondary sexual characteristics yet". So the translation is relatively accurate.

However... I agree with arromdee in that 15 years old is pretty late for starting pubertal development in girls (although it's stated elsewhere that the character in question is considered a late bloomer - jokes about looking like a middle-schooler / grade-schooler are made later on), and that there's enough nudity to let us know that this character... well, to put it bluntly, has started developing breasts at least, which is why I interpreted the line as more of an insult rather than a factual statement. (We will not speak of Eiken.) So I was undecided about that issue.

Regardless, though, there's way too much nudity and sexing going on, so when you couple that with the questionable age / developmental maturity of the abovementioned character, I wouldn't have any issue with cutting.

edited 26th May '12 9:11:21 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#3890: May 26th 2012 at 8:32:48 AM

I think the whole "I think this is fine, but I'm flagging it anyway" thing is on the theory that once something is passed by P5, it's off the table. So a work gets flagged and passed now by someone willing to defend it so that in a year and a half when some prude sincerely wants it out they can be told "already reviewed, decided to keep".

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#3891: May 26th 2012 at 8:36:05 AM

I don't agree with flagging works that we don't seriously think are a problem.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3893: May 26th 2012 at 8:46:33 AM

Prolly because of this:

  • Lolicon: The fifteen-year-old heroine appears nude a lot.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#3894: May 26th 2012 at 8:47:35 AM

[up][up][up]Nothing is permanently kept, it turns out, so there's no point. If a decision to keep were permanent, I wouldn't see anything wrong with saying "I'm flagging this for review, but here's my defense of it" do avoid someone down the line saying "I'm flagging this for review because it's filthy, sure there's no nudity, but you can see that all the women have legs".

The only reason not to do that is that it doesn't actually work.

edited 26th May '12 8:48:40 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
TheFoxsCloak Since: Mar, 2011
#3895: May 26th 2012 at 8:47:47 AM

[up][up]ಠ_ಠ. That is one of the worst misuses I've seen yet.

edited 26th May '12 8:51:47 AM by TheFoxsCloak

animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#3896: May 26th 2012 at 8:48:59 AM

Oh, to me, lolicon is not a 15 year old being naked in a webcomic.

Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#3897: May 26th 2012 at 8:52:41 AM

Lolicon: The fifteen-year-old heroine appears nude a lot.

... And? Is the nudity sexualized?

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3898: May 26th 2012 at 8:55:18 AM

[up]Dunno, but 15 is in any case not paedo-bait - far into puberty. It's misuse of lolicon in any case, so I just pulled it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
tdgoodrich1 R.I.P 2 My Youth from Atlanta Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
#3899: May 26th 2012 at 8:59:59 AM

[up]@Komodin: Having just looked over the first twenty or so strips, there really ain't all that much nudity, and what there was was more Naked People Are Funny than sexualized nudity. If we can keep Oglaf, we can definitely keep this.

edited 26th May '12 9:00:45 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#3900: May 26th 2012 at 9:02:49 AM

Yeah, the nudity in that one seems very much naked people are funny.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

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