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The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

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The sub-forum is used for discussions that adjudicate possible violations of The Content Policy. Threads here can be created by flagging a page through the sidebar "report" button and toggling "The page may violate the Content Policy".

This thread is for general discussion of pages.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 10th 2022 at 11:50:32 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#14526: Nov 21st 2022 at 11:55:44 AM

[up] Peggy Sue sounds like a bad cut reason anyway. If they're not porn or pedo maybe they need to be re-examined.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 21st 2022 at 10:55:59 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#14527: Nov 21st 2022 at 11:58:16 AM

Well, assuming that the works are anything like Redo, the characters are adults traveling back into their child bodies and then having sex. We determined that Keyaru's mental age is enough to make him an adult, so that might change the original ruling for the other works cut.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#14528: Nov 21st 2022 at 12:01:41 PM

Following up on [up], there's also the fact that in the anime and manga, the "problematic" characters don't look particularly young (plus protag can shapeshift, so he's in an "adult" body much of the time anyway). If either of them looked significantly younger, those two would have been purged with the light novel).

Edited by badtothebaritone on Nov 21st 2022 at 2:02:44 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#14529: Nov 21st 2022 at 12:03:03 PM

Well, yeah. My point is that if the Peggy Sue stuff was treated differently in the past, then back then, Redo would've been cut on the assumption that Keyaru was 14 regardless of the ages of the girls. That's not what happened this time, so that's probably why the older cuts are being questioned.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 21st 2022 at 3:03:30 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#14530: Nov 21st 2022 at 12:06:13 PM

Anyway, if there are any works in mind, I can always give a personal opinion on each case separately.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#14531: Nov 21st 2022 at 12:15:50 PM

[up][up] This is exactly the reasoning.

Edit: There were two Naruto fics I specifically remember being cut on these grounds. One was called Time Braid; the other's name escapes me but should be in the full list. I'll review when I have time.

Edited by LargoQuagmire on Nov 21st 2022 at 12:17:05 PM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#14532: Nov 21st 2022 at 12:20:45 PM

The discussion about Time Braid for reference. Sounds like even worse than Healer by the sound of it.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 21st 2022 at 11:24:46 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#14533: Nov 21st 2022 at 1:09:49 PM

Yeah, that one sounds like it'd be cutworthy due to the "sex with 12 year olds" stuff, not the Peggy Sue stuff.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#14534: Nov 21st 2022 at 7:00:43 PM

The fact is that the criterion is ultimately a matter of "I know it when I see it" rather than a clear criterion. "Does this work provide sexual material of children to pander to pedophiles?" Two different Peggy Sue fics could end up on different sides of the line depending on whether the work passes the smell test.

Re: Time Braid, it's a little skeevier than Redo. And Redo is right on the effing line, that's why we've spent literal months trying to get a consensus on what to do with it. TB won't pass for that reason.

Edited by Ramidel on Nov 21st 2022 at 6:05:59 AM

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#14535: Nov 22nd 2022 at 8:59:35 AM

[up] That latter part actually reminds me of a guideline we use in part of my work, paraphrased: "if you have to spend serious time debating whether or not something fails, it passes." However, we err on the side of caution whereas here, erring on the side of harshness is generally what happens.

Edited by Willbyr on Nov 22nd 2022 at 11:00:14 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#14536: Nov 22nd 2022 at 10:37:41 PM

The sticking point with Redo most recently has been whether a character who is drawn as a ~15-16 YO but is stated to be thirteen in the original version of the property, should still be considered that age in versions where her age is left vague.

On which note, another work I'd like to bring up for review for the sake of precedent: This Is Screwed Up, but I Was Reincarnated as a GIRL in Another World!. It definitely passes the plot v. porn criterion, but there's a bit of a hitch with the main character's age. Ren is drawn quite, ahem, well-developed, but definitely Younger Than They Look, and is apparently stated to be eleven in the Light Novel although since it hasn't been localized I can't verify that. She's never depicted having sex with anyone; rather, she has a bit of a masturbation addiction, which the manga routinely handles with Sexy Discretion Shots (again, I have no idea how much detail the LN goes into).

So, it's kinda toeing the same line as Redo but minus the additional problem of consent or lack thereof. It's also Played for Laughs rather than for fanservice, at least in the manga.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 22nd 2022 at 1:47:25 PM

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#14537: Nov 22nd 2022 at 11:08:29 PM

The Man, I Feel Like a Woman and Nipple and Dimed examples on the work page make me consider it could need a flag, but I'll wait for someone else to comment.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#14538: Nov 22nd 2022 at 11:30:01 PM

If it's only in the LN, then that's what should be cut for under-age stuff. Adaptions of a work change stuff all the time. If they don't give details, we can't really judge it as if the VN is identical either. That's not judging what's actually in the work, but applying out of context data instead. This isn't even a Word of God thing, which would actually matter because it's at least something official for said adaption.

Besides, some of those works might not pass for other reasons, but it's still due to what is in each specific version of the work that we judge by. WOG is the only other time where it can matter. A lot of works are basically heavily censored or fixed up to remove certain parts/change certain parts so they appeal to a different demographic or are even allowed to be published under certain settings.

In each of those cases, all it shows is the LN are practically guaranteed cuts(once the details are properly given, anyway), but only shows the Manga/Anime(or whatever adaptions) are done differently to remove the "underage character" by aging them up, meaning they no longer instantly fall under our criteria of younger than 15-16ish.

It's more or less the same outcome, because the precedent has been set to judge it by what's in the actual work specifically. Which has been how we've done things in general, including how tropes work, what we've used for things like Complete Monster and so on beforehand. Not every adaption is identical, with tons of changes, including simply language changes can make all the difference. In one case, Transformers: Robots in Disguise(anime version) has Megatron in the US be a horrific person while slightly being a decent boss before he turns into Galvatron and erases any goodness inside by that point. Whereas the Japanese version has him more or less the same person but does a Heel–Face Turn at the end, cementing a huge difference between the two. The same ultimately applies here. What happens in said work is what is applied accurately to said work. If an age isn't said, the best we can go by is details directly given to us. And when they show a clear character who is 15+, it's pretty difficult to say they're not cause one version of the work has it stated(despite it being a case they actually are described as younger anyway). Another way to put it is they're clearly designed as different characters. It's almost the same as if they literally gave an older age, which further means it doesn't fall under a cut category(at least for that portion of the what criteria it has to pass, anyway).

"One version equals all" does not make sense by any margin of this website.

Shadow?
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#14539: Nov 23rd 2022 at 11:04:47 AM

Mm. It's looking on the keep edge to me (I don't think that what's mentioned is unreasonable and it doesn't seem targeted at pedophiles) but you can flag it if you think it should be addressed.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#14540: Nov 29th 2022 at 1:30:49 PM

At FanficRecs.My Hero Academia Shipping Fics there's a note: "Do warn when a fanfic may head into sexual territory". How lenient can we get here? The characters are 15-16.

I've noticed "Consensual Underage Sex" in one of the Tags and it's such a red flag.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#14541: Nov 30th 2022 at 3:11:08 PM

Edit: Wrong thread

Edited by badtothebaritone on Nov 30th 2022 at 5:15:11 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#14542: Dec 3rd 2022 at 7:57:13 PM

[up][up] I believe that's just a general warning for the descriptions of Recs pages.

Any fics with "consensual underage sex" definitely are a bad sign, though.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#14543: Dec 4th 2022 at 1:27:40 PM

Has Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA been brought up yet? Given that its iteration of Illya and her Canon Foreigner friend Maya are only 11 years old (instead of Illya being 18 but looking 11 as in Fate/stay night) but are still presented as the subject of Male Gaze, lewd jokes, and repeated molestations at the hands of Illya's Dirty Kid Fille Fatale clone Chloe/Kuro... if it hasn't I'd be surprised, and if it has I'm surprised the decision was made to keep it.

Edited by Arawn999 on Dec 4th 2022 at 1:28:39 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#14544: Dec 4th 2022 at 1:38:19 PM

[up][up][up][up] I think 16 is the minimum for fanfic recs, but it still depends on how prominent it is in the actual fic.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#14545: Dec 4th 2022 at 1:44:46 PM

[up] Yes, 16 is the minimum age.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#14546: Dec 4th 2022 at 2:13:24 PM

[up][up][up]It was brought up and discussed here in 2020 (and the previous page to that one) but it was never formerly reported. I think there's enough reasonable concern for it to get reported.

Also, it was unnecessary to bring up the same work on this thread and the Content Policy thread

Edited by MacronNotes on Dec 4th 2022 at 5:36:31 AM

Macron's notes
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#14547: Dec 4th 2022 at 2:27:09 PM

[up] Oh. Alright... well, I think this is the more appropriate channel to discuss it.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#14548: Dec 4th 2022 at 2:28:00 PM

Why not just report it?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#14549: Dec 4th 2022 at 2:33:38 PM

I will note sex magic is a part of the series that wasn't completely adapted out, but they avoid it with anyone who looks too young regardless in the adaptions, so at most we would be cutting any adaption that directly includes it(not just this particular series).

The VN definitely could be a problem, though. For any anime, keep and clean would be the best option, due to them being on things like Crunchyroll and Netflix.

Shadow?
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#14550: Dec 4th 2022 at 3:03:40 PM

[up] You mean Fate/stay night? Illya was going to be a romanceable character — including a bad end where she captures Shiro and more or less rapes him to death — but her route was cut, Fate/kaleid liner spawning out of the ensuing meta Running Gag of Illya being pissed off about that and wanting to be a "heroine". So in the original visual novel, she is not one of the characters who engages in Sex Magic, unlike Saber, Rin, and Sakura.

Edited by Arawn999 on Dec 4th 2022 at 3:04:08 AM


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