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Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 10th 2022 at 11:50:32 AM
To write the verdict with specifics for the judgement.
Hm, it somehow isn't actually getting send off with the conclusion.
Going through the ones I hadn't voted on yet (because we didn't have enough people, so it wasn't high priority):
VisualNovel.Yandere I Love You So I Want To Kill You: This character
seems to be the main point of contention. It's unclear if she's underage or not. Anyone have any more detail on that?
Lover and Beloved: Just needs some cleaning.
Creator.Captain Ger Bear: Angeled. Not the first erotica creator page we kept.
Creator.Jimmy Savile: Zapped. It's not really in our jurisdiction.
Fanfic.The Phoenix Of The Wasteland: Seems just generally dark, not porn.
VisualNovel.Boyfriend To Death: Angeled. Guro by itself is not a reason to nuke something. It even has a SFW version.
VisualNovel.D Nd Poisoned: Need more detail. There's just some worry of pedo-pandering, but it's not clear if the younger characters get sex scenes. Other than that, it's fine.
Manga.Umibe No Onna Noko: This one is borderline. Where do middle-schoolers sit on the pedo-pandering scale? I'll read it soon to see where it sits on the porn scale.
Legal Jailbait: Page was already cut for unrelated reasons. Zapped.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.I don't think I made this clear enough earlier, but I have no problem whatsoever with Lover and Beloved as a trope here, given that it maintains quite a bit of historical importance and show echoes throughout modern queer fiction. I was simply pointing out that some of the film examples in particular would by no means fly here, let alone given the explicitness with which they are described, and thus should probably be weeded out.
Dn D Poisoned seems like a fairly typical shipping doujin-turned-visual novel, but those stills from late in the game are, uh... *cough* I mean, it's fairly tame by fan VN standards, but I'm pretty sure that's cut-worthy.
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.On that I love youblahblahblah character, to me it looks like Generic Anime Character. Not age specific at all.
Also, the reason why Legal Jailbait was flagged is to see if it's worth restoring, seeing as the cut reason is blatantly false (Really 700 Years Old is specifically for people with extremely long ages, far above any age of majority) and 5P compliance is the only question.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanWhat was Legal Jailbait? Character is legal age of consent, but appears younger?
The cut reason for Legal Jailbait was that it's already covered in Really 700 Years Old and that it consisted mainly of complaining. In other words, no useful content.
edited 10th Dec '16 10:07:05 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yes. But what was the trope itself? Really 700 Years Old is specific to beings with unnaturally long lifespans choosing to appear as young people.
edited 10th Dec '16 10:08:26 AM by Madrugada
Looking at the reversion history, the final pre-cut version of the page stated that it was a phenomenon wherein a character who was deliberately crafted to look like a minor was arbitrarily assigned a "legal" age so as to skirt paedophilia rules on a technicality. In other words, fetish pandering under a veneer of legality. To which I say, "Fuck that noise, it can stay cut."
edited 10th Dec '16 10:07:35 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Wayback machine time! 2011 version:
...and then there are characters such as these, specifically tailored to fit the Lolicon tastes...
...without the baggage of guilt of lusting after an actual child character.
Girls (and occasionally boys) who ascribe to this trope are invariably Older than They Look adults, or supernatural beings that are Really 700 Years Old. The narrative takes great pains to remind the audience that they are adults, thereby (barely) justifying the sexualization of their apparent innocence and youth because they are technically and legally adults, and can hence be pursued without an iota of guilt.
It's not just the guilt of the readers, mind you. There are countries where publishing acts of drawn underage sex is illegal. This is sometimes as close as the publishers can legally get if they want to sell their work in those countries. Note, however, that countries have differing laws on the matter, and what may be an effective legal dodge in one country may equal jail time in another.
The second difference is that the sexiness of these characters are usually played completely straight, as opposed to fanservice comedy that results from the embarrassment of being "caught with her pants down".
Finally, this trope is also more often than not played for drama as well; the stigma of being a "forbidden object of lust" trapped in a "child's" body when one is an adult with sexual desires is a veritable goldmine of angst driven drama and plot.
A combinatorial trope of Jailbait Wait, Fetish Fuel Station Attendant and Lolicon. Occasionally meets There Should Be a Law. A real life version of this can be the result of Dawson Casting.
2013 version:
Girls (and occasionally boys) who ascribe to this trope are invariably Older Than They Look adults, or supernatural beings that are Really 700 Years Old. The narrative takes great pains to remind the audience that they are adults, thereby (poorly) attempting to justify the sexualization of their apparent innocence and youth. Their being technically adults serves as a tenuous excuse to alleviate the reader of possible guilt.
It's not just the guilt of the readers; there are countries where publishing works with drawn underage sex is illegal. This is sometimes as close as the publishers can legally get if they want to sell their work in those countries. Note, however, that countries have differing laws on the matter, and what may be an effective legal dodge in one country may equal jail time in another.
Finally, this trope is also more often than not played for drama as well; the stigma of being a "forbidden object of lust" trapped in a "child's" body when one is an adult with sexual desires is a veritable goldmine of angst-driven drama and plot.
I always got it as older characters 18 to 700 years old who look like they are 10.
Such as Eva in Negima she got turned into a vampire in the middle ages at the age of 10 thus stayed 10 even after a millennium has past.
Its a pretty common trope used in anime and manga, they tend to get treated as a kid even though they are ancient or older and they tend to really HATE it.
Other variants are shapeshifters that just look like kids, people who never phsyically grow up but are actually aging like that one batman villlain with the dolls or Gary Coleman, and such and some really messed up ones are people who get made ageless while pregnant and thus the child is stagnant in the womb... forever...
Its very distinct from Really 700 Years Old as that has no restrictions on looks since they could really look 700 years old as well as they could be 30 thus only being in Legal Jailbait and not Really 700 Years Old.
Its a trope imo and does not have to be pedo pandering.
edited 10th Dec '16 10:22:39 AM by Memers
The last paragraph of both descriptions is kind of interesting, and maybe worth discussion on a different page (such as Older Than They Look, for instance), but the first version implies a blatant violation of policy, and the second version is just plain shrill. An unnecessary page.
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.On Yandere I Love You So I Want To Kill You, there's also the issue of some sites categorizing it as nukige, AKA plotless porn (different from eroge) that we typically cut.
edited 10th Dec '16 1:43:36 PM by Assassin-sensei
Someone ought to write a page (or pages) explaining what all these terms nukige and the like mean. Anyone out here who is up for doing this?
edited 10th Dec '16 1:45:54 PM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman@Discar: Dn D Poisoned shows onscreen stills of underaged characters engaging in sexual intercourse. I posted the CG gallery in question last page or so.
While I've seen the argument made that it's not exactly an easy-to-access route, nor is this sort of thing common, I feel that said images kind of force my hand here, particularly the last one that Psyche posted. Unless I see a good argument soon, I'm probably going to give this one the thumbs-down.
...by the by, is it wrong that I find it kind of funny that the most damning image here is also one of the weakest from a technical perspective? The faces are *odd.*
edited 10th Dec '16 5:09:01 PM by JHM
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.On the Legal Jailbait and related things, I read through several P5 related threads when I first became aware of them, and one thing I remember is that the physical appearance is what's important as far as policy goes. It doesn't matter if the character is an ancient god in disguise -if they look like a child and are used for sexual titillation, etc., it's a no-go.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry PratchettWell, yeah, that does follow.
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Alright, added my angel. Disposition was asked and I accidentally hit closed. What was required there?