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The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

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The sub-forum is used for discussions that adjudicate possible violations of The Content Policy. Threads here can be created by flagging a page through the sidebar "report" button and toggling "The page may violate the Content Policy".

This thread is for general discussion of pages.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 10th 2022 at 11:50:32 AM

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#12176: Dec 10th 2016 at 12:46:54 AM

Alright, added my angel. Disposition was asked and I accidentally hit closed. What was required there?

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#12177: Dec 10th 2016 at 12:52:27 AM

To write the verdict with specifics for the judgement.

See all those examples.

Hm, it somehow isn't actually getting send off with the conclusion.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#12178: Dec 10th 2016 at 1:08:20 AM

Maybe you need to first fill in a disposition, then actually close the report off...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#12179: Dec 10th 2016 at 1:13:34 AM

I did fill it and then hit close. So yeah.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#12180: Dec 10th 2016 at 7:22:26 AM

So the site updates broke the voting tool or something? (This is what not having an active P5 gets us, since logically we had no way of knowing if there were bugs until now. tongue)

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#12181: Dec 10th 2016 at 7:32:00 AM

[up]But it worked when I dropped ryona and squad broken! surprised

Aaaaand it suddenly worked now.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/its_a_mystery.gif

edited 10th Dec '16 7:35:28 AM by Adannor

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#12182: Dec 10th 2016 at 7:36:31 AM

Yay! Bugs! [lol]

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#12183: Dec 10th 2016 at 9:10:48 AM

Going through the ones I hadn't voted on yet (because we didn't have enough people, so it wasn't high priority):

VisualNovel.Yandere I Love You So I Want To Kill You: This character seems to be the main point of contention. It's unclear if she's underage or not. Anyone have any more detail on that?

Lover and Beloved: Just needs some cleaning.

Creator.Captain Ger Bear: Angeled. Not the first erotica creator page we kept.

Creator.Jimmy Savile: Zapped. It's not really in our jurisdiction.

Fanfic.The Phoenix Of The Wasteland: Seems just generally dark, not porn.

VisualNovel.Boyfriend To Death: Angeled. Guro by itself is not a reason to nuke something. It even has a SFW version.

VisualNovel.D Nd Poisoned: Need more detail. There's just some worry of pedo-pandering, but it's not clear if the younger characters get sex scenes. Other than that, it's fine.

Manga.Umibe No Onna Noko: This one is borderline. Where do middle-schoolers sit on the pedo-pandering scale? I'll read it soon to see where it sits on the porn scale.

Legal Jailbait: Page was already cut for unrelated reasons. Zapped.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#12184: Dec 10th 2016 at 9:25:26 AM

I don't think I made this clear enough earlier, but I have no problem whatsoever with Lover and Beloved as a trope here, given that it maintains quite a bit of historical importance and show echoes throughout modern queer fiction. I was simply pointing out that some of the film examples in particular would by no means fly here, let alone given the explicitness with which they are described, and thus should probably be weeded out.

Dn D Poisoned seems like a fairly typical shipping doujin-turned-visual novel, but those stills from late in the game are, uh... *cough* I mean, it's fairly tame by fan VN standards, but I'm pretty sure that's cut-worthy.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#12185: Dec 10th 2016 at 9:41:41 AM

On that I love youblahblahblah character, to me it looks like Generic Anime Character. Not age specific at all.

Also, the reason why Legal Jailbait was flagged is to see if it's worth restoring, seeing as the cut reason is blatantly false (Really 700 Years Old is specifically for people with extremely long ages, far above any age of majority) and 5P compliance is the only question.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#12186: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:02:23 AM

What was Legal Jailbait? Character is legal age of consent, but appears younger?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#12187: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:04:49 AM

The cut reason for Legal Jailbait was that it's already covered in Really 700 Years Old and that it consisted mainly of complaining. In other words, no useful content.

edited 10th Dec '16 10:07:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#12188: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:05:52 AM

Yes. But what was the trope itself? Really 700 Years Old is specific to beings with unnaturally long lifespans choosing to appear as young people.

edited 10th Dec '16 10:08:26 AM by Madrugada

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#12189: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:07:11 AM

Looking at the reversion history, the final pre-cut version of the page stated that it was a phenomenon wherein a character who was deliberately crafted to look like a minor was arbitrarily assigned a "legal" age so as to skirt paedophilia rules on a technicality. In other words, fetish pandering under a veneer of legality. To which I say, "Fuck that noise, it can stay cut."

edited 10th Dec '16 10:07:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#12190: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:09:34 AM

Wayback machine time! 2011 version:

There are Moe characters whose youth and innocence attract a fanbase of sexual lust in spite of a manga/anime author's intentions...

...and then there are characters such as these, specifically tailored to fit the Lolicon tastes...

...without the baggage of guilt of lusting after an actual child character.

Girls (and occasionally boys) who ascribe to this trope are invariably Older than They Look adults, or supernatural beings that are Really 700 Years Old. The narrative takes great pains to remind the audience that they are adults, thereby (barely) justifying the sexualization of their apparent innocence and youth because they are technically and legally adults, and can hence be pursued without an iota of guilt.

It's not just the guilt of the readers, mind you. There are countries where publishing acts of drawn underage sex is illegal. This is sometimes as close as the publishers can legally get if they want to sell their work in those countries. Note, however, that countries have differing laws on the matter, and what may be an effective legal dodge in one country may equal jail time in another.

The second difference is that the sexiness of these characters are usually played completely straight, as opposed to fanservice comedy that results from the embarrassment of being "caught with her pants down".

Finally, this trope is also more often than not played for drama as well; the stigma of being a "forbidden object of lust" trapped in a "child's" body when one is an adult with sexual desires is a veritable goldmine of angst driven drama and plot.

A combinatorial trope of Jailbait Wait, Fetish Fuel Station Attendant and Lolicon. Occasionally meets There Should Be a Law. A real life version of this can be the result of Dawson Casting.

2013 version:

There are Moe characters whose youth and innocence attract a fanbase of sexual lust in spite of an author's intentions and then there are characters who are meant to appeal to Lolicon tastes. That's what we call paedopandering and it is a bad thing.

Girls (and occasionally boys) who ascribe to this trope are invariably Older Than They Look adults, or supernatural beings that are Really 700 Years Old. The narrative takes great pains to remind the audience that they are adults, thereby (poorly) attempting to justify the sexualization of their apparent innocence and youth. Their being technically adults serves as a tenuous excuse to alleviate the reader of possible guilt.

It's not just the guilt of the readers; there are countries where publishing works with drawn underage sex is illegal. This is sometimes as close as the publishers can legally get if they want to sell their work in those countries. Note, however, that countries have differing laws on the matter, and what may be an effective legal dodge in one country may equal jail time in another.

Finally, this trope is also more often than not played for drama as well; the stigma of being a "forbidden object of lust" trapped in a "child's" body when one is an adult with sexual desires is a veritable goldmine of angst-driven drama and plot.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#12191: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:15:05 AM

I always got it as older characters 18 to 700 years old who look like they are 10.

Such as Eva in Negima she got turned into a vampire in the middle ages at the age of 10 thus stayed 10 even after a millennium has past.

Its a pretty common trope used in anime and manga, they tend to get treated as a kid even though they are ancient or older and they tend to really HATE it.

Other variants are shapeshifters that just look like kids, people who never phsyically grow up but are actually aging like that one batman villlain with the dolls or Gary Coleman, and such and some really messed up ones are people who get made ageless while pregnant and thus the child is stagnant in the womb... forever...

Its very distinct from Really 700 Years Old as that has no restrictions on looks since they could really look 700 years old as well as they could be 30 thus only being in Legal Jailbait and not Really 700 Years Old.

Its a trope imo and does not have to be pedo pandering.

edited 10th Dec '16 10:22:39 AM by Memers

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#12192: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:19:55 AM

OK, then, It was always pedopandering. Thank you for the clarification.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#12193: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:35:32 AM

Something that may serve a plot scope sometimes, but would need removal of any fetish pandering...I'll check about this.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#12194: Dec 10th 2016 at 10:37:57 AM

The last paragraph of both descriptions is kind of interesting, and maybe worth discussion on a different page (such as Older Than They Look, for instance), but the first version implies a blatant violation of policy, and the second version is just plain shrill. An unnecessary page.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Assassin-sensei Since: Jun, 2014
#12195: Dec 10th 2016 at 1:43:15 PM

On Yandere I Love You So I Want To Kill You, there's also the issue of some sites categorizing it as nukige, AKA plotless porn (different from eroge) that we typically cut.

edited 10th Dec '16 1:43:36 PM by Assassin-sensei

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#12196: Dec 10th 2016 at 1:44:39 PM

Someone ought to write a page (or pages) explaining what all these terms nukige and the like mean. Anyone out here who is up for doing this?

edited 10th Dec '16 1:45:54 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Psychedelicate She/Her Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: That's rough, buddy
She/Her
#12197: Dec 10th 2016 at 4:54:41 PM

@Discar: Dn D Poisoned shows onscreen stills of underaged characters engaging in sexual intercourse. I posted the CG gallery in question last page or so.

JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#12198: Dec 10th 2016 at 5:07:13 PM

While I've seen the argument made that it's not exactly an easy-to-access route, nor is this sort of thing common, I feel that said images kind of force my hand here, particularly the last one that Psyche posted. Unless I see a good argument soon, I'm probably going to give this one the thumbs-down.

...by the by, is it wrong that I find it kind of funny that the most damning image here is also one of the weakest from a technical perspective? The faces are *odd.*

edited 10th Dec '16 5:09:01 PM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Candi Sorcerer in training from Closer to rimward than hubward Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Sorcerer in training
#12199: Dec 10th 2016 at 7:06:46 PM

On the Legal Jailbait and related things, I read through several P5 related threads when I first became aware of them, and one thing I remember is that the physical appearance is what's important as far as policy goes. It doesn't matter if the character is an ancient god in disguise -if they look like a child and are used for sexual titillation, etc., it's a no-go.

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting

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