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Cross (Don’t ask)
#151: Mar 31st 2023 at 5:39:02 AM

Been a while since I’ve watched the show, think she’s meant to be the athletic one?

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#152: Mar 31st 2023 at 5:48:59 AM

Alex is the athletic tomboy, yeah. Sam is the nerdy one, and Clover is, well, the dumb airhead blonde.

No wonder they changed Clover so much later on, it wasn't exactly a flattering depiction.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#153: Mar 31st 2023 at 10:36:55 AM

It depends on the episode as well. Clover very quickly got good at being the team leader when Sam got zapped with the “laser” that made people act like little kids.

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#154: Mar 31st 2023 at 10:40:24 AM

Yeah, that probably helped get her out of that particular corner.

It also makes me wonder if she borrowed that intelligence boosting helmet at some point.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
#155: Mar 31st 2023 at 3:27:29 PM

It felt like in that mid-era Sam kind of absorbed the best qualities of the group, being the smart one and the most nimble one in action as well even more of the Only Sane Man than Jerry, she often felt like the main character with the other two as comic relief. Again maybe promoting Clover later on was trying to dial it back down (I think Sam went back to being smart but Not So Above It All as well).

(Actually was there ever an episode Sam was just gagged or something? Surprised no villain ever got savvy to her thinking up escape plans when they got caught.)

it feels like Clover is kind of meant to be the "Rarity" of the group, the comically superficial and snobby one of the group who actually has a lot more character to her than that, just the issue with that archetype is that it's very easy to just dumb them down to that stereotype for real.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 31st 2023 at 11:39:47 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#156: Mar 31st 2023 at 3:45:21 PM

The difference there is that Rarity, from the start, was a productive version of the archetype: she created fashion and ran her own boutique. Clover, meanwhile, was entirely on the consumptive end of the spectrum, obsessed with shopping and boys.

Clover was basically what Faust was pushing back against with Rarity: a young fashionista who wasn't just consuming fashion, but creating it.

And while Clover has a job as a spy, that job doesn't complement her fashionista personality, if anything, it is in conflict with it.

Edited by Redmess on Mar 31st 2023 at 12:46:02 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
#157: Mar 31st 2023 at 4:15:04 PM

I feel like those elements could be forgiven by Clover being a teenager, and such things were common with Sam and Alex as well. It was a tongue in cheek cartoon after all.

The difference is that Clover was a much more Flanderized take on that, and due to the aforementioned problem of her being the least competent of the spies with no distinct niche, her interests didn't link or have Chekhov's Skill moments like the other girls got, thus feeling more shallow.

In hindsight it's surprising Clover didn't often have some involvement with their disguises.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 31st 2023 at 12:15:38 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#158: Mar 31st 2023 at 4:20:05 PM

That would have been nice, but their disguises always came from WHOOP. And then they got those gadgets that basically generated disguises for them out of nothing, so they didn't even have to put up with the whole treadmill dressing room any more.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#159: Mar 31st 2023 at 5:08:49 PM

As far as I remember, there was Jazz Hands's debut episode where Sam is one of the spies that gets turned into a mime. Of course she gets a text-to-speech computer to circumvent this, but I feel like that counts as gagging.

The legend has returned.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#160: Mar 31st 2023 at 6:15:19 PM

Huh, turns out I only have season 1-3 on DVD. I guess the later seasons are never going to be on DVD, then?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#161: Mar 31st 2023 at 8:28:09 PM

Actually was there ever an episode Sam was just gagged or something?

Probably not, or else we wouldn't get great lines like this: "You'll never get away with this! By the way, just what exactly are you trying to get away with?"

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
#162: Mar 31st 2023 at 8:33:58 PM

[up]Ah the mummy episode, where the villain didn't even bind their arms properly.tongue

(Seriously how do you botch full-body mummification? He even had a machine for it.)

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 31st 2023 at 4:36:35 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#163: Apr 1st 2023 at 3:00:06 AM

Well, you have to give the heroes a fair chance. If every villain knew how to properly tie someone up and had the sense to take away their gadgets, they wouldn't stand much of a chance.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#165: Apr 1st 2023 at 12:29:29 PM

Annoying sci-fi-bordering-on-magic-ways, too, at times.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#166: Apr 1st 2023 at 1:00:29 PM

Yeah, a couple of times when they get called into WOOHP, it looks like they're getting sucked into Jumanji. surprisedtongue

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#167: Apr 1st 2023 at 1:08:59 PM

I like to think it's supposed to be an ego-check for their agents.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#168: Apr 2nd 2023 at 5:16:22 PM

This show can be so odd sometimes. Like that time some hypnotist hypnotized a bunch of kids to attack the spies, and they were all ashy and red hot for no apparent reason other than making it so the girls couldn't just beat them up. And it was never explained...

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#169: Apr 2nd 2023 at 5:53:51 PM

I notice the recap pages are almost all empty, shouldn't we try and fill those?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#170: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:07:02 PM

“Wait! I can’t run in these shoes!”

Would that be the only time that Clover felt buyer’s remorse? tongue

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
Shad0wSmoke Since: Nov, 2013
#171: Apr 6th 2023 at 1:17:14 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up]

lol that reminds me of that famous water death trap episode in Kim Possible where Drakken puts her in what is seemingly a houdini-esque impossible escape situation but doesn't take her ring laser gadget which would've easily solved every layer of the trap. She only used it on her chains and the box but she could've also used it on the sharks and the ice if she wanted to. It would've been much more interesting if she had to free herself from that without any high tech gadgets. iirc Inspector Gadget had some moments like that too.

Speaking of all this though, has there been any recent female spy/action sleuth cartoons for kids/teen audiences? This genre seems to have just vanished after the 2010s after having quite a few in the 2000s.

Edited by Shad0wSmoke on Apr 6th 2023 at 1:20:21 AM

Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#172: Apr 6th 2023 at 1:39:45 AM

I always felt that Drakken should just steal molerat and Kimmunicator during the mission to win. Without Wade and Rufus, heroes would be lost.

Were there any male spy/sleuth cartoons?

Some genres are just dying. We either get gritty realism or fantastic bizarre worlds. More mundane but whimsy action heroes like barbarians or cowboys, Sindbad, Tarzan, or Zorro seem to be losing popularity these days.

Edited by Sunchet on Apr 6th 2023 at 10:40:44 AM

Shad0wSmoke Since: Nov, 2013
#173: Apr 6th 2023 at 2:51:48 AM

Phineas and Ferb, Secret Saturdays, and Archer (although this one is targeted more at adults) off the top of my head. There was that recent Dove movie too. I guess the days of episodic Bond-esque adventures with card carrying villains have hit their heyday for cartoons. At least there's still some anime like that.

Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#174: Apr 6th 2023 at 3:27:37 AM

Ironically now the prelevant genre for kids seems to be basically isekai.

Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
#175: Apr 6th 2023 at 4:28:20 PM

The Bad Guys kinda falls into a spy type premise in its last half due to the heist setup blending well with having supervillains and what not. The Crimson Paw is basically a female secret agent in how her Heel–Face Turn works as well, especially with all her gadgets (though oddly enough, she fails to use ANY of them when in the token death trap and needs rescuing instead).

Edited by Psi001 on Apr 6th 2023 at 12:32:16 PM


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