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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2251: Sep 10th 2012 at 1:23:48 PM

Because, for example, we might get editors who have played the visual novel. Since we're not allowing that onto the page, it's best to make it so people have to check through the locked page edit request thread.

Also, I doubt it's the point, but it also has a sort of symbolic meaning. It's a kind of "This is the borderline. Anything worse than this is going out the door."

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#2252: Sep 10th 2012 at 1:31:08 PM

[up] Right. Also, we've established the precedent with other P5-reviewed pages.

Lindaeus Nothing special, really from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012
Nothing special, really
#2253: Sep 10th 2012 at 1:33:13 PM

I'm not going to go on a rampage if it gets restored as a locked page, but may I make a suggestion? We could simply try having it unlocked and see what kind of writing it attracts. Like I said, close to no one wrote about the visual novel while the page was still up; in fact, close to no one except for me wrote about the series at all. I watched the page daily before and I'll go back to doing that if it gets restored, so I could easily undo any mentions of the game. I understand if this isn't doable, though.

Listen to others, think for yourself.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#2254: Sep 10th 2012 at 2:21:27 PM

Popotan did have a clean version of its visual novel on the PS 2. Though it was also rated D for ages 17+, so I don't know if it's safe or not.

Lindaeus Nothing special, really from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012
Nothing special, really
#2255: Sep 10th 2012 at 2:25:48 PM

I'm in no rush to hypothetically expand the Popotan page to include the game as well, no matter what version. I don't think there are that many editors who've played it, so there'd be close to no content regardless.

Listen to others, think for yourself.
Morganite Something strange... from Dynamis - Firefly Alley Since: May, 2012
Something strange...
#2256: Sep 12th 2012 at 6:09:32 PM

I'm having a hard time seeing Mii as having enough fanservice to count as a "sheer volume". Because from looking at Gray Sloth's list and thinking back to when I watched the series... it just doesn't add up to a whole lot. So much of it's "blink and you'll miss it", I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't fit all of Mii's problematic scenes into certain individual (and far more blatant) fanservice scenes for Ai and Mea.

"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#2257: Sep 16th 2012 at 12:46:01 PM

I would like to suggest that Training with Hinako be restored, with all mention of Bathtime With Hinako And Hiyako left out.

As I understand it, TWH was sacked for pedo-pandering, but that only applies to Bathtime. There's neither porn nor pedo in Training With Hinako or Sleeping With Hinako.

Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#2258: Sep 16th 2012 at 1:42:57 PM

As I understand it, TWH was sacked for pedo-pandering, but that only applies to Bathtime. There's neither porn nor pedo in Training With Hinako or Sleeping With Hinako.

Can you please provide some proof of that being the case?

edited 16th Sep '12 1:43:06 PM by Komodin

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#2259: Sep 16th 2012 at 2:49:51 PM

DVD cover. That does not look like an underage girl to me.

One image Another

The worst from Training. No pedopandering, and not pornographic; no sex, no uncovered nipples and no vag, though it's literally nonstop fanservice from the first minute.

Sleeping is more of the same. Gratuitous Panty Shot warning ahoy. (Disclaimer: only watched five minutes of it and scanned the bottom bar of a Youtube Lets Watch.)

The bottom of the barrel.

edited 16th Sep '12 2:51:32 PM by Ramidel

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#2260: Sep 17th 2012 at 6:48:43 AM

I could see allowing the ones that don't include the young girl, as IIRC the others didn't have much in the way of objectionable content aside from some fanservice of an adult character.

I think that if we go that route, though, it should be with examples locked so that Bathing with... examples don't creep back in.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
tdgoodrich1 R.I.P 2 My Youth from Atlanta Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
#2261: Sep 17th 2012 at 7:23:09 AM

[up]Fine by me.

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#2263: Sep 18th 2012 at 4:18:05 AM

Gave hinako the third angel, and requested for the former examples page to be listed here so that we can remove any examples necessary.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#2264: Sep 18th 2012 at 4:20:03 AM

Japanese animation is a very wide media which spans countless genres. From children television to hardcore porn, from slapstick comedy to sad dramas, from Romantic Comedy to bloody action.

Now comes a 20 minute OVA which fills one of the few niches still not covered by anime: Isshoni Training / Training with Hinako is an animated fitness video. As most fitness videos it is less about actually giving exercising instructions but more about giving an excuse to ogle a sparsely clothed, bouncy, sweaty girl.

Despite its very cheap production (countless repeats of the same sequences) it was quite a hit in Japan. All copies of the DVD were sold out immediately at release day.

A sequel, Sleeping With Hinako, was released in February 2010. "Sleeping" alters the formula, and is meant to "simulate" a sleepover with Hinako. It acts as sleep ambiance and an alarm clock. The ambient footage is a repeating loop of Hinako sleeping in sexy poses from various camera angles, giving the viewer something pretty to look at and listen to when falling asleep and waking up.

A third installment, Bathtime With Hinako And Hiyoko, was released on December 24, 2010. "Bathtime" goes back to exercise, however it is intended to be watched in the bathtub, since similar to "Sleeping" it's part of the "illusion" of taking a bath with Hinako. The first half shows stretching exercises for the viewer to follow, similar to volume 1, however the second half switches to a narrative showing Hinako's petite friend Hiyoko visiting, which is meant to be the viewer's "reward" after the workout. This part of OVA consists largely of sensual imagery of the girls washing each others' bodies. What to use it for is left to the viewer's imagination. A bonus workout, "Drying with Hinako" is also included.


Has examples of:

  • Animated Actors
  • Animation Bump: The animation in volume 3 is noticeably smoother and less dependent on cycles than the first two (although cycles are still used a lot).
  • Author Appeal
  • Bathing Beauty
  • Bathtub Bonding — In vol. 3, occurs not only between Hinako and Hiyoko, but also between Hinako and you, the viewer! Well, sort of. The studio markets volume 3 as being ideally viewed while taking a bath, to enhance the "illusion" of taking a bath with the characters.
  • Did Not Do The Research — Hinako exercises in ways every professional fitness instructor would advise against (Sit-Ups are discouraged nowadays because they don't do much for the abdominal muscles and are bad for the spine), but who cares.
  • Early-Bird Cameo: Have a look at Hinako's team members on her anime show previewed during the credits of Training with Hinako. Then have a look at Bathing with Hinako and Hiyoko. Suddenly the Captain having magical powers makes a lot more sense.
  • Ecchi — While the first two volumes are almost entirely made of Fanservice anyway, Bathtime drops straight into this, and only averts outright Hentai by not showing anything.
  • Fanservice — As if the rest wasn't enough, Hinako flirts directly with the viewer and says sweet nothings. Service doesn't get much more direct than that.
  • Furo Scene — More like furo episode. See volume 3.
  • Gainaxing — Sometimes even with sound effect
  • Innocently Insensitive — Hiyoko. While exploring Hinako's curvy figure, Hiyoko refers to it as "extra fat" and suggests that Hinako lose weight. This upsets Hinako, since she's been sensitive about her weight after almost losing her part in the school play over it.
  • Lolicon — Hiyoko, though technically Hinako would be underage in many jurisdictions too. Hiyoko is "not as developed yet" as she puts it, since she is younger.
  • Mai Kadowaki — yes, Mai Kadowaki voiced Hinako.
  • Male Gaze
  • Modesty Towel — The "drying" section of Volume 3
  • Ms. Fanservice — Hinako, of course.
  • Naked First Impression — Hiyoko is initially distressed when it hits her that you've seen her "naked" (which is only partially true). She claims she can't get married unless either you take her, or if she blows you up with her magical powers. However, Hinako quickly calms her down and it's back to business as usual. It should be noted that Hinako wants you for herself.
  • No Fourth Wall — Hinako is frequently interacting directly with the viewer.
  • Panty Shot
  • Pettanko — Hiyoko
  • Retcon — While Training explicitly states that Hinako is Trapped in TV Land and has to lose weight to stop losing her role as a character in an anime, in Bathing she says that it's a role in a school play she is losing weight for.
  • Scenery Censor
  • Shower Scene
  • Skinship Grope — As stated above, Bathtime With Hinako And Hiyoko features scenes of Hinako and Hiyoko washing and fondling each other's bodies.
  • Stock Footage — Countless repeats after repeats of the same animation cycles until you are paying more attention to the background than the character and become grateful for your fast-forward button.
    • To be fair though, Volume 3 does lay off on the blatant abuse of repeated animation cycles considerably.
  • Trapped in TV Land — Hinako used to be a real girl but got sucked into the anime world.
  • Unequal Pairing — Partially inverted. Hinako addresses Hiyoko as "Captain" and even salutes her. However, since Hinako is older (and by extension, considerably more physically developed), this dynamic shifts when they're naked and covered in soap.
  • Widget Series — depends on the person.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
tdgoodrich1 R.I.P 2 My Youth from Atlanta Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
#2266: Sep 18th 2012 at 6:46:58 AM

Also gonna need to remove that last paragraph from the description since it's entirely about Vol. 3.

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2267: Sep 18th 2012 at 7:04:42 AM

Shouldn't we mention that it exists but that we're not going to talk about it? I suppose it doesn't make a great deal of difference though.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#2268: Sep 18th 2012 at 7:06:13 AM

Considering that it's going to be locked, probably best to ignore it completely.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#2269: Sep 18th 2012 at 7:08:40 AM

The Mai Kadowaki entry would also need to be zapped. Not out of any P5 concerns, but because actors (voice or otherwise) aren't to be used as tropes in a list of tropes relevant to the work in question.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2270: Sep 18th 2012 at 7:13:06 AM

Oh, right. No need to warn editors not to put in Hiyoko examples, I guess.

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#2271: Sep 18th 2012 at 8:00:02 AM

Well, people will be able to request updates via mods, so I think we should at the very least add edit comments warning against those examples just in case a mod is not familiar with our decision here.

eta: I will create a sandbox page with the new changes as soon as I get a chance.

edited 18th Sep '12 8:08:08 AM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#2272: Sep 18th 2012 at 10:20:45 AM

Lu was kind enough to create Sandbox.Hinako, and I've gone ahead and made the edit changes suggested in this thread.

I included this commented out message, for the benefits of any mods that happen to get edit requests in the future: "Per P5 decision, examples from volume 3 - "Bathtime with Hinako" are not allowed.:

Any additional changes need to be made before we request the page to go live?

edited 18th Sep '12 10:23:37 AM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
tdgoodrich1 R.I.P 2 My Youth from Atlanta Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
#2273: Sep 18th 2012 at 10:36:04 AM

Looks good to me.

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2274: Sep 18th 2012 at 10:36:53 AM

The main thing I'd add there would be "This page is only about [this and that] and is locked to enforce that. Please ask [[editrequests here]] for edits." or a variant as in practice page locks cause the page quality to decay.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#2275: Sep 18th 2012 at 11:20:06 AM

The reason I added the commented out sentence instead of putting it directly on the page was based on the discussion above about it not being needed.

I'm fine with doing it either way, we just need to decide which way is better.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

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