Page Restoration Petitions

Gray: I'm not saying it shouldn't be on TVT because it's badly written, I'm saying it shouldn't be on TVT because it's porn. I mean, if they approve, whoohoo, it stays on, but just because I like a book / see the merit in it doesn't necessarily mean it will mesh with the new rules.

edited 13th Jun '12 7:38:25 PM by MrAHR

Read my stories!

I think Gray is saying that too to an extent.

It's either Porn or it isn't, though. If it's porn, it almost never should be on here, barring really important historical ones, although I think Useful Notes could solve those issues, kind of similar to what Playboy/Playgirl is now.

Quest 64 thread

Edited by GraySloth on Jan 26th 2024 at 1:23:30 AM

My understanding is that in general the P5 are judging on the plot-sex ratio. I'm not sure what the specific ratio is but it's clear explicit sex =/= an automatic cut.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

Interesting, because it was the Other Wiki's article that first lead me to suspect it might not be porn. Of course, I read more than just the very-brief plot summary. But even that didn't scream porn at me—though the phrase "erotic novel" certainly left the interpretation open.

edit yeah, and none of the people who are claiming it is porn seem to be mentioning the sex-to-plot ratio (although I think it's a bit more complex than just a ratio). I wish the it-is-porn crowd would be a bit more specific in their allegations.

edited 13th Jun '12 7:53:07 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

No, Gray.

If all the porn is optionable and out of the way, even if it has quite a lot of it, it's not automatically porn. There are definitely grey areas to look through.

Mainly why no hard guideline/rule is followed about this at all.

Quest 64 thread

Well, the main reason porn (which we're basically counting as "more porn than plot") is cut is because it attracts prurient and/or creepy edits. It may be possible for a page of something pornographic to stay if it's locked or can be proven to stay clean.

However, I'm not sure if they're actually willing to do that.

Edited by GraySloth on Jan 26th 2024 at 1:23:57 AM

Hmm...

Well, I'd say write a petition explaining why 50 shades is okay.

Quest 64 thread

Edited by GraySloth on Jan 26th 2024 at 1:24:20 AM

For what it's worth, here's a NSFW excerpt that showed up on my tumblr dashboard from the book.◊ The (terrible) sex scenes are definitely present, but this doesn't really indicate context or to what degree that they take up the story.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to forget that I ever read that. Ugh.

♥ ♦ ♠ ♣

Oh wow, that made me laugh, that was so badly written.

Hodor

Edited by GraySloth on Jan 26th 2024 at 1:24:34 AM

I'd like to appeal Rape as a Drama and Rape as a Comedy tropes, because they aren't as much about porno itself as about plot/backstory events, that quite often appear or mentioned in otherwise normal novels/movies/etc

That's an issue with Google and we're waiting for a correspondance with them to find out what we can do.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

Ok - skimmed first book. I'm doing approximations of page numbers since it is an e-book; also I may have missed specific things since I skimmed.

First kiss at page ~100/500. Scattered sex scenes (around five?) with pretty vanilla language starting around page 150-200. Discussions about BDSM are not altogether vanilla, but the sex scenes in themselves have nothing rougher than spanking as far as I could find.

The book is mainly a LOT of talk, as far as I can see: He's sexy, does he love me, he likes to do what?, I have to ask my best friend, can I really go for this lifestyle...

Personally, I don't think a book with this much dialogue and this little actual sex qualifies for porn, but YMMV. The FAQ post by Bobby G does say: "Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes." This is far from mainly porn, even if you define all the sex scenes as porn rather than just sex scenes. If I did like to censor things - I don't - I would have banned the pages on Bret Easton Ellis' American Psycho and Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake books long before this, as being far more disturbing/explicit.

I can, of course, post quotes to back up my judgments.

Personal opinion: Wasn't very impressed by the writing, but then I very seldom am. Realize I'm not the typical reader, though, as I'm not fond of Twilight (might have been if I was fifteen, though - you never know ;).

And, to get this clear - Google is asking you to remove references to material that has porn in it? I would understand that they wouldn't want you to have actual porn, but references? That would make you far more censored than any other work on culture I've found.

Actually, no. Eddie don't want us to list porn works. Only that. We can still refer to them, we just don't want to make them part of the website.

Google, however, seems to have a problem with the word 'rape', for some reason (which is why there is no page with the word in its title). The administration are still trying to get them to answer what their problem is, exactly.

edited 14th Jun '12 12:03:33 AM by Heatth

Can we please stop throwing the word "censored" around?

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.

"Censored

Verb: Examine (a book, movie, web site, etc.) officially and suppress unacceptable parts of it. Merriam-Webster The Free Dictionary"

Sorry man that's exactly what is happening here.

edited 14th Jun '12 1:08:27 AM by GraySloth

I've noticed that P5 members rarely read/watch items up for deletion, even if they're available. Nobody played Katahane, despite there being a translation patch. They seemed to just follow the leader after one declared it bad. (Arha hates the game with a passion, so he isn't the most objective source either.)

~Cute and fluffy romance for all!~

Katahane gave us enough images to declare it unsalvageable.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

You can't really expect they to read everything. It is just not possible. They gather the information they can and judge based on that.

(also, technically, it is not that easy to get a copy of Katahane, you know)

edited 14th Jun '12 2:51:53 AM by Heatth

Also, can we not turn this thread into "Let's Complain About the P5's Decisions?" I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a bit paranoid here, but it really does seem to be going in that direction, and I don't really like that.

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.

This is a bit unavoidable, I think. I mean, I believe all the first waves of cut have already been dealt. So any restoration petition here would be about the P5 cuts. Any petition, therefore, is a bit of "complaining about P5 decision". Yeah, I know it should be less 'complaining' and more "casting doubts", but even if 'complaining' is not the intention, it is hard to interpret it in other way.