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FinalStarman from Clinton, Massachusetts Since: Nov, 2011
#426: Apr 19th 2012 at 8:04:16 PM

This thread is not for discussion of specific works or policy or definitions or whatever. Fate Stay Night has already been mentioned once in this thread, that's all we need for now.

mod post

[down] PM'd him.

edited 19th Apr '12 8:30:02 PM by FinalStarman

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!
TwoGunAngel The Demon Slayer Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
The Demon Slayer
#427: Apr 19th 2012 at 8:17:51 PM

Glider Guy is currently adding things to the cutlist that should really be flagged. Would somebody pass the memo along to him?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#428: Apr 19th 2012 at 8:36:10 PM

@John,

The term 'Hentai' itself is sometimes used loosely, to means only 'anime/manga witch explicit sex in it"*

, though most people do use as 'anime/manga porn' instead. However, H-Game, is pretty much always used with the most loose connotation. So any Japanese(inspired) game with explicit sex is considered a H-Game, even if it is not porn.

To make things more confusing, we also have Ecchi. The English fandom separates it from Hentai exactly by its being not porn. It may be somewhat explicit(like a nipple here and there), but never enough to be called Hentai. So H-Game can be interpreted as 'Ecchi-Game' instead of 'Hentai-Game' (of course, the word 'ecchi' comes for the Japanese pronunciation for 'H', meaning it is just a short for Hentai, but it matter not for our purposes).

So, the most common definition have:

  • Hentai:Porn.
  • Ecchi:Sexual, but not pornographic.
  • H-Game:Sexual*, maybe pornographic or not.

Somewhat more on topic, may I make a petition for have the Hentai page back? Not as a work index, naturally, as we actually do not want any of those*

, but as a fanspeak definition. Considering we are bound to keep the pages for Ecchi and H-Game, as these are not automatically forbidden, missing Hentai will cause needless confusion.

Edit:Silly me. It seems we still have Hentai. Was it restored recently or we had a separated page for the term and for the index?

[down]I see. My mistake.

edited 19th Apr '12 8:46:46 PM by Heatth

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#429: Apr 19th 2012 at 8:43:06 PM

The index half on Hentai was all that was cut. The definition remained intact.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#430: Apr 19th 2012 at 9:56:57 PM

If you want details on what is actually considered a porn game, I think the actual word for that is 'nukige' as opposed to 'nakige

' and 'utsuge.' I don't think tvtropes has that distinction anywhere though. Nor do I expect anyone to really remember this stuff, it's just my way of explaining that while all of these are at potentially H games and nukige are by definition H games, an H game is not necessarily a porn game.

TwoGunAngel The Demon Slayer Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
The Demon Slayer
#431: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:08:58 PM

The pages that Glider Guy put on the cutlist have been cut. All of these works pages (along with the one listed by Elle below) should be given a proper review by the council before being cut or reinstated.

edited 19th Apr '12 11:17:18 PM by TwoGunAngel

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#432: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:09:21 PM

Collar Six : This was part of Glider Guy 's cutlisting spree and it was cut right after it was posted to the review thread. The cut reason given misrepresented the work. It involves an Alternate Universe with a BSDM based Blue-and-Orange Morality and a complex non sex plot arc. The incident mentioned with the aphrodesiac was between the BSDM equivialnt of a married coupple. There is fetish applenty so it may not pass review, but it should BE reviewed.

Kuruni (Long Runner)
#433: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:42:45 PM

CthulhuTech - Part of Glider Guy's cutlisting spree. He based it on very elaborate description, most likely trolling, from Gratuitous Rape - not from the article itself. And from this comment in cutlist...

->"If this is true, then the focus of the published material of the game is explicit rape pornography, and violates the new guidelines."

Pretty obvious that he didn't even check the article before adding it to cutlist.

GliderGuy Since: Aug, 2010
#434: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:49:02 PM

I checked the article. Everything was clear; the game has been repeatedly criticized for being rape-heavy. The Gratuitous Rape page said that it was present in every quest, and, more important for the guidelines, happens to the player characters. That means that it's roleplayed, not just some background detail. Roleplayed (as in, the DM is describing specifically what is happening), explicit rape seems to violate the new content guidelines.

(Obviously, feel free to challenge it, but I'm not trolling; this work, based on this wiki, appears to me to violate the guidelines. I didn't nominate it just to mess with people).

edited 19th Apr '12 11:51:46 PM by GliderGuy

encrypted12345 Since: Jun, 2010
#435: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:52:07 PM

[up] Explicit paedo definitely violates the new guidelines. Explicit Rape is fine (I think) as long as it's Plot With Porn. Stop overreacting.

edited 19th Apr '12 11:53:16 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#436: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:04:45 AM

It's possible that certain murkier aspects of a work appeals to some people, who would then decided to give those aspects more prominence.

Personally I prefer to let recommendations be recommendations, i.e. just list it and cut them later, rather than cut them first before panel examination. But, (1) Eddie probably wanted the latter to be on the safe side, and (2) some works are definite 5/5 nays candidates anyway, so.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
TwoGunAngel The Demon Slayer Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
The Demon Slayer
#437: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:07:42 AM

Too true. I'm definitely not defending Celebrian or any of the Fansadox stuff (the former is a fairly infamous little Troll Fic), but Cthulhu Tech at least deserves a review.

edited 20th Apr '12 12:08:53 AM by TwoGunAngel

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#438: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:08:41 AM

Cutlisting as soon as you post in the other thread is bad IMO.... Let the 5 cut list it if they say no.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
TwoGunAngel The Demon Slayer Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
The Demon Slayer
#439: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:30:00 AM

Glider Guy was cutlisting before those got added. I was the one that gave the heads-up in this and the other thread. All but two of the main works pages he threw on the cutlist were cut. The other stuff that he wanted dealt with were added to the other thread.

I really hate it when people go over the council's heads like this — at least one of the works cut (Corruption Of Champions) was on the other thread as being a work that they were going to review. Now the mods are going to have to add those pages to the list of cut pages in the Sandbox, along with the other pages cut because of this.

edited 20th Apr '12 12:46:04 AM by TwoGunAngel

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#440: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:37:04 AM

It's possible that certain murkier aspects of a work appeals to some people, who would then decided to give those aspects more prominence.

Problem starts when those people are the writers.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#441: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:53:20 AM

Indeed. But we're off-topic here. I'm sorry.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#442: Apr 20th 2012 at 4:10:44 AM

Explicit paedo definitely violates the new guidelines. Explicit Rape is fine (I think) as long as it's Plot with Porn. Stop overreacting.
While this is silly rules lawyering (the spirit of the purge should be clear by now, instead of clinging to the letter of it) - some of CT's rapey stuff does in fact includes minors.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#443: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:01:49 AM

Some of the rape on Law And Order includes minors. That doesn't mean we delete every Police Procedural out there.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#444: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:13:24 AM

Would it be in this thread's purview to ask that the now-cut index of works on Hentai's article be combed through for any works that are really not pornographic despite having explicit sexual content, other than already appealed works like Fate Stay Night?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#445: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:15:30 AM

edit: never mind, the work I was going to make a petition for wasn't cut in the first place.

edited 20th Apr '12 5:16:59 AM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#446: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:16:52 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but under the new rules Theres No Such Thing As Notability applies only when there is no explicit sexual content, in which case it's up for disscusion.

Do I understand correctly?

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#447: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:18:11 AM

[up]No, it's only up for discussion if it's either only sex or if it is underage (whatever that means) sex.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheOneWhoTropes Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty from Newton-le-willows, quaint town Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty
#448: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:19:02 AM

... Or Under-16's having sex (clarifying the age limit.)

Keeper of The Celestial Flame
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#449: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:20:30 AM

Word of Mod says the "age 16" limit only applies to fanfic recs.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Nyaahotep Eldrith Cat Since: Apr, 2012
Eldrith Cat
#450: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:21:15 AM

@Glider Guy: This is Cthulhu tech's website. I can vouch for this game that there are ways to avoid any sex in-game. So I would like to petition for it's return. Sex IS part of the game play and is optional. If you don't want it, you can just ignore that part.

I got a suggestion: before you cut things, if you aren't really trolling or a hater, it's better to do a research OUTSIDE tvtropes before cutlisting.

edited 20th Apr '12 5:46:34 AM by Nyaahotep


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