Yeah, I'm not at all down with bringing back Innocent Panties. That's just trouble waiting to happen again.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.Fair enough. I just figured that a definitive answer to the question would be useful, since it was pretty much a Eddie fiat, and that thread I linked had a mod saying there was at one point something worthwhile in there.
It's better this way, so that you can bring this conversation up if someone else asks about it.
Now, about my other question...
edited 10th Dec '15 5:11:08 PM by TotemicHero
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)Looking at the wayback machine the Innocent Panties trope was about how kids and those innocent in works have no shame and such. they appear in works running around naked after a bath, not bothering to cover themselves, or just not watching their skirt.
It actually appears in a lot of kid aimed works like Ponyo a Ghibli / Disney movie.
Also appeared in the Love Hina manga when Mutsumi got hit in the head and thought she was a kid again at a doctor's office with people yelling at her to cover up.
Does it need come back? not really I dont think.
edited 10th Dec '15 5:25:53 PM by Memers
Let's be careful about our terminology. Yes, it is a trope. No, it is not something that we want to document on this site.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I agree that it should be a gradual process in terms of actually unlocking the cut stuff. We can address multiple decisions right now (and may want to before news about this relaxation of the policy gets out), but staggering the implementations of any decisions to restore would be preferable.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)Off-site, we'd briefly discussed the possibility of making Innocent Panties a locked, imageless, definition-only page, or at the very least I'd mentioned it. I'll have some free time tonight, I may take a stab at that.
Tropes that were cut should be addressed before works, to me.
edited 10th Dec '15 6:04:02 PM by Willbyr
Okay then, here's the list of tropes cut or changed under the policy and what can be done.
- Innocent Panties: Listing for completeness, even though consensus is that it should stay gone.
- Naughty Tentacles: Most people have no problem with keeping the old name. So now to work on a sandbox...
- Black Bra and Panties: As I said before, this one looks like it needs a overhaul. Too much People Sit On Chairs going on here.
- The Art of Bra Removal: I see nothing beyond the standard cleanup issues here.
- Naked Shotaro Boy: If you didn't like Innocent Panties, you probably won't like this one either.
- Double Standard tropes: These five weren't cut, but renamed. But I'd say that the current names are clunky, and I think they were an Eddie fiat, so we could look at names with a little more brevity.
If anyone knows of any other trope that got cut or hit with major changes as a result of the content policy, fill me in, but I think this is it.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)My only idea for those two would be wrapping Naked Shotaro Boy and Innocent Panties into one Innocent Indecency trope. Along the lines of a more 'Kids don't know better so they do indecent things that parents have a hard time controlling' and not the more explicit 'naked' or 'panties'.
Yeah its probably still way too much.
edited 10th Dec '15 6:27:13 PM by Memers
No issues with leaving it gone if the vote stays that way, but I'm throwing this up for discussion.
If we're going to have a more formal vote (or even a crowner), should we have threads for some or all of the problem tropes and their issues? Seems like it could get confusing if we have to discuss them all here in this one thread.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)Yeah, I can't argue with that one. If we're keeping the original idea, Memers's suggestion seems reasonable; the name Innocent Indecency does sound fairly neutral. (And alliterative.)
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)I think it would be a trope if it's about how it's specifically used to show that the character is innocent. A few decades ago, it was just something that happened, and wasn't meaningful in itself.
Check out my fanfiction!Grouping up "Innocent Indecency" seems getting close to overlapping with Innocent Fanservice Girl. Just with a claim "this is totally not fanservice".
edited 10th Dec '15 9:43:50 PM by Adannor
"Black Bra and Panties: As I said before, this one looks like it needs a overhaul. Too much People Sit on Chairs going on here. "
I disagree. There is too much Square Peg Round Trope going on there. The definition is clear: black ladies underwear is treated as special and noteworthy in fiction. If there isn't at least some mention of the color paired with some reaction as though they are special, those examples should be cut.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.Innocent Indecency is a subtrope of Children Are Innocent, where Innocent Fanservice Girl is a subtrope of Fanservice. They're very different things.
I think Innocent Indecency should be the name, with a strong description about not having every time a kid appeared with a bare rump in media. As is often said, it needs narrative meaning, such as being embarrassing, which can vary according to culture and story.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Agreed, and that definition pretty much requires an in universe reaction to said nudity or showing panties or whatever usually in a 'put some clothes on' kinda way, trying to control them in some way, explain how it isn't decent, or later embarrassing like in a picture from childhood etc. Actually showing anything at all to the audience isn't necessary at all.
Like the second one shows up in Zeta Gundam where after a bath the 2 youngest kids are running around the ship naked while the person who was giving them the bath didn't want to follow them out into the hall because she was naked too. The kids don't care but she clearly does.
The latter shows up in Ranma where Ranma's father, in an effort to embarrass him, produces a photo of like 6 year old Ramna crying and naked after he wet the bed and starts showing the photo to girls.
edited 10th Dec '15 11:44:24 PM by Memers
Just a reminder, the Content Policy has nothing to do with Google at all. There were two separate incidents back then, Eddie discovering that Innocent Panties was creating all manner of bad publicity and a complaint from Google about Naughty Tentacles I think. The Content Policy was chiefly installed to deal with the first kind of issue - constructing a policy for us out of Google's complaints is a non-worker.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanSome non-binding opinion about some pages:
- The Art of Bra Removal: Is that page clean enough for us?
- Black Bra and Panties: Something for the appearance tropes cleanup thread I'd say.
- Innocent Panties: If restored, this needs to be completely exampleless - the mere existence of an example list would create creepiness problems. Something for 2.0 where examplelessness can be enforced technically.
- Naked Shotaro Boy: Same issue as with Innocent Panties. In addition, tropeworthiness concerns.
- Naughty Tentacles: Sandbox.Naughty Tentacles already exists.
Other tropes are O Ring Orifice (the genital version is definitively a porno trope, nose mouth and ears may be safe though) and Suspiciously Vague Age.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

"Tropes" like that should not even be considered for restoration. I may not want Naughty Tentacles back, but there's at least something to work with.