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TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#1: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:21:01 AM

I've been looking on those pages titled Foe Yay, Ho Yay, Les Yay, No Yay, and so on. I know those are Your Mileage May Vary pages, and that's why I'm hoping we can discuss the examples listed on those pages.

For instance, I can agree that there is Foe Yay going on between Batman and The Joker. Well, I think it's more the Joker giving off those vibes than Batman anyway!

However, some claim Ho Yay between Captain Kirk and Spock in Star Trek. I personally think that's phoney-baloney! Why? Well, I think the two of them are just friends and that they're not particularly attracted to each other sexually speaking.

My point is, I can see why some examples get put up, but some of them, I think the viewer is looking a little too hard for something that isn't there, and thinks that "relationship = sex". Sure, a relationship can have sex, but not always.

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#2: Apr 15th 2012 at 12:30:14 PM

However, some claim Ho Yay between Captain Kirk and Spock in Star Trek. I personally think that's phoney-baloney! Why? Well, I think the two of them are just friends and that they're not particularly attracted to each other sexually speaking.

Dude, that claim is about as old as the show itself, and you're just gonna have to live with it.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#3: Apr 15th 2012 at 12:34:08 PM

Some people like to ship, some don't. Many fans like to speculate, and their speculations tend to be somewhat different from one another.

Speculation aside, most people assume their interpretation of what they watched is the canonical one (i.e. that they didn't misinterpret it). This means sometimes when people read too much into a scene, or for that matter, fail to pick up on things that were intentionally included, they can come away with a perception of the show that seems baffling to viewers who saw things differently.

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Jimmmyman10 cannot into space from polan Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
#4: Apr 15th 2012 at 12:35:58 PM

That's why Ho Yay is in the YMMV tab.

It's subjective.

BAM

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#5: Apr 15th 2012 at 4:43:13 PM

I admit, as a writer, I don't see the point of a lot of those. If characters are meant to be in love/in a relationship/ attracted to each other, just put it in the work, don't coyly dance around the possibility. Les Yay and Ho Yay seem like they're there more for titillation value than any actual desire to include same-sex romances.

Be not afraid...
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#6: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:12:52 PM

I admit, as a writer, I don't see the point of a lot of those. If characters are meant to be in love/in a relationship/ attracted to each other, just put it in the work, don't coyly dance around the possibility. Les Yay and Ho Yay seem like they're there more for titillation value than any actual desire to include same-sex romances.
You couldn't really do a large-scale mainstream cinema movie with a gay main couple nowadays, nevermind ten, twenty, fifty years ago. Literature allows for a lot more, but even there, titles with gay romance most likely won't become bestsellers. That's just how it works.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#7: Apr 16th 2012 at 4:46:58 AM

There's that one show Xena Warrior Princess. There are loads of speculation that Xena and Gabrielle have some serious Les Yay going on between them. Maybe they're just good friends, but at least in this case I can see why they'd think that. Heck, even Gabrielle's actor became convinced of the trope, due to a scene of X. and G. "kissing" each other to breathe underwater!

I kinda wonder if those two characters could be considered Bi Yay. Mostly because not only are they attracted (maybe) to each other, but they both had interesting relationships with men and had at least one kid from them! Or maybe Bi Yay is too much of a stretch, since those two don't seem to be interested in women that way, except to each other.

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#8: Apr 16th 2012 at 4:59:09 AM

I didn't actaully watch the show, but I got the impression from describtions and reviews that Xena/Gabrielle is in fact practically canon. Text, not subtext.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#9: Apr 16th 2012 at 4:59:37 AM

[up][up][up] I guess that is true for main characters. I was also thinking, though, of the sort of secondary characters that pop up and the work is like "Maybe they're in a lesbian relationship, maybe they're not. We're not telling you straight out tongue"

And surely, in works where you have a large primary cast, you could have one or two same-sex relationships among them without alienating the general public too much.

edited 16th Apr '12 3:34:30 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...
JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#10: Apr 16th 2012 at 7:51:09 AM

It's highly subjective, but sometimes the subtext is at least partly intentional... though the fact that it is never said outright enforces the subjective quality. For example, if I said that Madoka Magica was absolutely saturated with conscious lesbian subtext, would I be right? Yes.On the other hand, if I were to delve into specifics? No.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#11: Apr 16th 2012 at 2:26:52 PM

Personally I find it's tactless to outright state a characters sexually if it's not plot related. But I've always preferred No Hugging, No Kissing to shipping.

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TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#12: Apr 18th 2012 at 4:58:58 AM

[up] You should check out Fear Effect. Hoo, boy! That series has tons of fun with sexual tension between characters. Hana and Rain seem to quite affectionate towards each other. It could be said that Hana might have an easier time being in a relationship with a woman because she was a child prostitute and probably thinks that men in general view women as just sex objects.

One really big hint of Hana and Rain's relationship occurs at the end, when Hana has to figure out which girl is Rain and which is Rain's Evil Twin sister Mist. After shooting the imposter, Hana is asked how she knew, and Hana says, "My Rain is left-handed". People don't say "My <Insert Person's Name Here>" unless that person is special to them.

The director Stan Liu actually said this:

Once and for all, let me set the record straight. Hana is not a lesbian! She likes men...and she likes women. Who she chooses to go to bed with at the end of the day is not a big deal![...]The only reason I wanted Hana to have a female companion this time around is because it gives me the ability to create an extremely interesting love triangle further down the road.

There was No Hugging, No Kissing between Hana and Glas, but that's not a bad thing, because that shows a relationship that is different from just a sexual encounter. In fact, if Fear Effect Inferno had not been cancelled, Hana and Glas would have had a Relationship Upgrade, and Rain and Glas would have had sex, with Rain punching out a mirror afterwards. Extremely interesting love triangle, indeed! grin

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
spasticgecko Dat Troper from Maryland Since: Oct, 2011
Dat Troper
#13: Apr 18th 2012 at 1:01:04 PM

^ They do when they're talking about two different people... like "your Rain" being he imposter's version of her and "my Rain" being the real thing.

I like your point, I'm just saying.

edited 18th Apr '12 1:01:26 PM by spasticgecko

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