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Rock Music Needs A Kick In The Crotch

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StillbirthMachine Heresiarch Command from The Womb ov Impurities Since: Mar, 2012
Heresiarch Command
#126: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:55:12 PM

I want German Kosmische (sp?) music a la Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze to return.

Only Death Is Real
MrMallard Since: Oct, 2010
#127: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:56:32 PM

I'm not saying all computer generated music is bad.

I'm saying the backbeats that are used in every song produced west of Kentucky, in such works as Christine Aguleira (sp), Nikki Minaj, J-lo etc., which ALL SOUND THE SAME, are bad. There's more to music than singing over the same 3 bars for 4 minutes.

StillbirthMachine Heresiarch Command from The Womb ov Impurities Since: Mar, 2012
Heresiarch Command
#128: Apr 20th 2012 at 1:15:03 PM

IMO, percussion should be taken out of most electronic music.

Only Death Is Real
Exelixi Lesbarian from Alchemist's workshop Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
#129: Apr 20th 2012 at 1:17:45 PM

[up]   Oh fuck no.   

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#130: Apr 20th 2012 at 1:20:25 PM

[up][up][up] No there isn't. Or, at least, there doesn't need to be.

One thing to keep in mind is the reason for the music. Most pop music is generally just something people can put in and dance to. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But more important, there's always been music that's basically been singing over the same few bars for several minutes. Some of that music has been hugely important. A lot of blues music has been like that. Even plenty of early rock music wasn't particularly complex.

The idea that music needs to be complex to be good is just snobbish. Jeff Buckley's rendition of Hallelujah is as simple as it gets, and it's one of the most powerful songs you'll ever hear.

edited 20th Apr '12 1:20:38 PM by Tiamatty

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#131: Apr 20th 2012 at 1:21:00 PM

[up][up][up](*Facepalm*)

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
EviIPaladin Some Guy Or Something from Middle-Of-Nowhere, NS Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Some Guy Or Something
#132: Apr 20th 2012 at 1:34:23 PM

So in an attempt to put this thing on back on the rails...

As someone who never lived through the big time of Guns N Roses, ACDC, and the other big rock acts, I can safely say I don't like most of them. I do enjoy early ACDC and Queen is probably one of my favourite bands of all time, but I much prefer "shitty" modern rock to the oh-so-revered bastions of old. I don't have a great understanding of music theory and all that shit, but I know what I like. The Protomen, The Megas, Breaking Benjamin, Hail The Villain, Die Mannequin, Killswitch Engage, etc.

So say shit about my tastes if you must. But I believe that rock is doing fine now. At least, it is to me. And really, that's all I care about.

edited 20th Apr '12 1:34:33 PM by EviIPaladin

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val
StillbirthMachine Heresiarch Command from The Womb ov Impurities Since: Mar, 2012
Heresiarch Command
#133: Apr 20th 2012 at 1:46:15 PM

All electronic but not a single drum-beat to be heard but regardless, one of the most important bands in the history of electronic music. It'd open up a lot more interesting compositional sensibilities seeing as it takes out the option of having to rely on traditional "catchy" beats and instead, a much more daring sense of internally regulated melody-encoded rhythm and more unusual structures.

edited 20th Apr '12 1:48:14 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#134: Apr 20th 2012 at 2:06:27 PM

Tangerine Dream is more the exception than the rule. And honestly, I don't really like them.

Take, say Igorrr, Meat Beat Manifesto (*Who are far more influential then Tangerine Dream*), Aphex Twin, Venetian Snares or Nero's Day At Disneyland

All heavily percussive and highly innovative.

edited 20th Apr '12 2:06:51 PM by inane242

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#135: Apr 20th 2012 at 2:28:59 PM

[up][up][up] You're pretty much right. I've never bought into nostalgia, and that's all these sorts of discussions are. I actually do remember when G'n'R were awesome, though I was young at the time. But I much prefer contemporary music to classic music.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
StillbirthMachine Heresiarch Command from The Womb ov Impurities Since: Mar, 2012
Heresiarch Command
#136: Apr 20th 2012 at 2:39:56 PM

There is a fair share of electronic/ambient that doesn't have much or any percussion - most of it tends to have been or styled after the earlier acts which are technically far more important to the development of electronic not surprisingly. Klaus Schulze, Robert Schroeder, Brian Eno, Biosphere, Michael Hoenig, Steve Roach and so on made far bigger steps in laying down many of the general foundations upon which most electronic/ambient was built upon. All the bands you posted are pretty much those that merely came in their wake and have yet to reach the same level of compositional expertise as they have.

As for Tangerine Dream's influence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_Dream#Influences. I mean we're talking about a band that's got seven Grammy nominations, made it to ''1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die'', earned a six figure sale in the UK with Phaedra (which earned them a Gold Disc in Australia), have composed movie soundtracks, have had various successful tours world wide, and so on. I don't know if they'd be THE most influential electronic music act in the history of forever, but I can't really doubt that they've made quite a name for themselves and all of their popularity inevitably would translate into a heavy dose of influence.

Aside from that, nothing you hyperlinked was for the most part terribly challenging or anything really out of the box for electronic music and pretty much fell into the whole "reliance on catchy beats" thing that pretty much makes a lot of electronic not very dissimilar in a way to a lot of pop music. That Venetian Snares song for example, is doing something that Klaus Schulze already did in a far more advanced way on the ''X'' album from 1978.

I'm not against percussion in electronic music in all cases, but I merely think that not having to rely on them simply gives you far more room and sorts of possibilities when it comes to the actual compositional/songwriting process.

edited 20th Apr '12 3:09:06 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#137: Apr 20th 2012 at 3:08:07 PM

The band's influence can be felt in ambient artists such as Deepspace, The Future Sound of London, David Kristian, and Global Communication, as well as rock, pop, and dance artists such as Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, M83, DJ Shadow, Ulrich Schnauss, Cut Copy, and Kasabian.

I highlighted the good ones. That's 5. Nice.

The band also clearly influenced 1990s and 2000s Trance music, where lush soundscapes and synth pads are used along with repetitive synth sequences

Trance. AKA Everything that could possibly be wrong with electronic music stuffed into one genre. Obnoxious 4/4 beats, boring basslines, shamelessly emotive arpeggios and regurgitated presets.

MBM is the main starting point for Drum'n'Bass (*And therefore Drill'n'Bass (*Which was the basis for IDM*), Neurofunk, Liquid, Jump-Up & Breakcore*), Industrial Hip-Hop, and Big Beat.

So without MBM you would not have any of these artists (*In any recognizable form*)

  • Goldie
  • The Prodigy
  • The Chemical Brothers
  • Noisia
  • Doc Scott
  • The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy
  • dalek
  • Plug
  • Venetian Snares
  • μ-Ziq
  • Aphex Twin
  • London Elektricity
  • Phace
  • Misanthrop
  • Bong-Ra
  • Amon Tobin
  • Black Sun Empire
  • Ladyscraper
  • Evol Intent
  • Enduser
  • Optical
  • Duran Duran Duran
  • Consolidated
  • MC 900 Ft. Jesus

And those are just the ones that I can pull off the top of my head.

edited 20th Apr '12 3:08:43 PM by inane242

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
StillbirthMachine Heresiarch Command from The Womb ov Impurities Since: Mar, 2012
Heresiarch Command
#138: Apr 20th 2012 at 3:14:24 PM

I highlighted the good ones. That's 5. Nice.

Doesn't matter if the bands are "good" or not - we're not talking about the quality of those that came after them but rather the greater overall influence a band would have.

Trance. AKA Everything that could possibly be wrong with electronic music stuffed into one genre. Obnoxious 4/4 beats, boring basslines, shamelessly emotive arpeggios and regurgitated presets.

Which doesn't by any means counter my point. Yes, you don't like trance, I don't really care for it much as well, but that doesn't by any means show that suddenly T.D. aren't "influential".

At the same time, all those bands you posted are bands that happened years after Tangerine Dream and various other contemporaries from the krautrock/kosmische music/Berlin school movement of the 60's/70's essentially laid down the framework for all the various genres/movements of electronic/ambient we enjoy/deride today.

edited 20th Apr '12 3:24:58 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real
Akalabth Self-loathing and sandwiches. from Ghost Planet Since: Feb, 2012
Self-loathing and sandwiches.
#139: Apr 20th 2012 at 3:28:43 PM

All the bands you posted are pretty much those that merely came in their wake and have yet to reach the same level of compositional expertise as they have.

Yes and no. Indeed the bands posted came in the wake of Tangerine Dream (by the simple privilege of time), but saying that Aphex Twin or Venetian Snares have never reached the same level of "compositional expertise" is very very subjective.

I have yet to hear any record by Tangerine Dream (Klaus Schulze is a different story) which still holds up as well today as it did back then. Their music sounds cheesy and very much overdated, especially compared to other stuff from the same era. Early Eno ambient works are way better than Tangerine Dream in terms of composition. In a similar manner, you should check Selected Ambient Works Vol. 2 by Aphex Twin, which singlehandedly holds up better and is better written than a lot of Tangerine Dream music, with better production values and actually timeless arrangements.

And being influential on a genre such as trance is not something I would call a strong feet by any stretch of the imagination.

You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
StillbirthMachine Heresiarch Command from The Womb ov Impurities Since: Mar, 2012
Heresiarch Command
#140: Apr 20th 2012 at 3:49:26 PM

I've yet to hear anything by Venetian Snares or Aphex Twins that really reaches that level of immensely spacious and pretty much classical-like constantly evolving soundscape that Tangerine Dream achieved on "Phaedra" or "Rubycon".

I honestly don't see T.D.'s supposed overdated-ness as negative traits; a lot of classical music for example is not surprisingly, pretty ancient by today's standards and not surprisingly sounds the part but that isn't by any means a strike against them. Same with a lot of progressive rock - it's "outdated" in a cosmetic/superficial/aesthetic sense but still light years ahead in terms of songwriting direction than most popular/mainstream music nowadays. At the same time, Brian Eno's compositional style is technically far more primitive than T.D.'s - Eno's less about exploring the boundary between spacious ambient sound and sublime classically influenced melody and more along the lines of general "neutral" soundscape in my experience, cool but pretty much the opposite of T.D.

I wasn't saying that was a good/bad thing but merely pointing out that simply disliking trance doesn't by any means suddenly make it that T.D. aren't as influential - movie soundtracks, black metal, synth rock, space rock, I.D.M., indie, a whole boatload of ambient/electronic subgenres that have multiplied like rats and so on do owe a lot to them and their contemporaries.

edited 20th Apr '12 3:50:38 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real
JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#141: Apr 20th 2012 at 4:42:41 PM

[up] You and Inane both seem to be seeking very different things in electronic music. In which case I happen to think that each of you are right in your own individual contexts: For the kind of feeling you want out of electronic music, less percussion is better; for the kind of feeling he wants out of electronic music, the opposite is often true. Applying each or the other's rules to those fields is inappropriate.

</moralising>

[up][up] I do enjoy Tangerine Dream greatly, but Schulze's solo material is indeed more consistent (even if the highs are perhaps higher in TD's oeuvre). There's also more of it, which is nice.

edited 21st Apr '12 8:19:44 AM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#142: Apr 21st 2012 at 12:38:46 AM

@inane: Hey, I like Cut Copy.*

edited 21st Apr '12 12:39:09 AM by 0dd1

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Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#143: Apr 21st 2012 at 9:10:40 AM

See, why can't more bands play like these guys.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#144: Apr 21st 2012 at 11:02:11 AM

[up] Because a lot of bands seem to have trouble with actually making a style of their own, or are too lazy to do so. It's extremely disappointing, but it's life.

Strange, I hadn't been paying attention much to The Arctic Monkeys for the longest time because of how straightforward they initially sounded. I might have to change my tune.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Jasonh Since: Apr, 2012
#145: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:21:03 PM

I wonder if a neo-classical movement in rock could work. Its already pretty popular in metal, so why not try using the style for mainstream rock? If anything, it might convince Ritchie Blackmore to play rock music again.

Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#146: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:51:38 PM

[up][up]Sraight-forwardness would be a great trait to come back to rock music.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
MrMallard Since: Oct, 2010
#147: Apr 21st 2012 at 8:03:28 PM

the problem with "modern" rock is that it's usually a bit... pretentious, as if the artists are trying to sound deep. They're either thinly veiled love songs, or have a second meaning or some shit like that. Good rock should be loud, fast and come straight out with the meaning, if it has one at all.

Quick tip: If you're using euphemisms in a rock song, you're doing it wrong.

edited 21st Apr '12 8:04:27 PM by MrMallard

cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#148: Apr 21st 2012 at 10:52:53 PM

this entire topic = YMMV

inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#149: Apr 21st 2012 at 11:21:33 PM

Pretty much.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#150: Apr 21st 2012 at 11:29:09 PM

If you're using euphemisms in a rock song, you're doing it wrong.

Oh, really now? Good to know, then.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

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