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HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#76: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:06:30 PM

Is the current headline about "malicious links" separate from the current situation or an extremely oblique way of referring to it?

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#77: Apr 19th 2012 at 11:07:47 PM

That's related to the Google situation (putting up a banner on outgoing links helps appease the big G), but unrelated to the 5P.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#78: Apr 20th 2012 at 2:27:10 AM

Getting informed about Wiki events needs to be easier

Yes.

Supporting post 67.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#79: Apr 20th 2012 at 6:16:50 AM

[up][up]Does that mean there's been some information from them?

edited 20th Apr '12 6:16:56 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#80: Apr 20th 2012 at 6:18:19 AM

We already know Google wasn't happy with the large amount of outbound links from Naughty Tentacles.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#81: Apr 20th 2012 at 6:31:40 AM

(I was wondering where all the conversation on this had gone... none of the threads I was watching was updating fast enough to possibly hold all the conversation that must be going on.)

@everybody: People (including me) should look through the Wiki Talk threads before making a new thread. We have had at least two other threads on basically this subject in the last month and at least one older than that.

I'll see about getting a summary of them together sometime... it shouldn't be too hard, just take some time looking through all the posts. Lots of the same comments.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#82: Apr 20th 2012 at 5:48:27 PM

Ok, now AdSense is back. I'm getting ads with G+ links in.

Good job, guys!

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
encrypted12345 Since: Jun, 2010
TwoGunAngel The Demon Slayer Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Singularity
The Demon Slayer
#84: Apr 20th 2012 at 6:54:25 PM

This has definitely been a crazy couple of weeks.

condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#85: Apr 20th 2012 at 6:56:44 PM

A lot of craziness could have been avoided if there was a little bit of heads up to prevent panic.

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#87: Apr 20th 2012 at 10:28:39 PM

Will be an amusing story to look back on though.

TParadox Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
#88: Apr 22nd 2012 at 3:03:54 PM

The moderators have come to the consensus that using the announcement box to announce wiki back end stuff doesn't work. It just results in confused people asking the same questions in circles, trolls shit posting, personal attacks, and nothing getting done.

[all of that] has been happening anyways. It's been a delayed reaction, but it's been even more confused due to the lack of proper explanation, and it's only going to get worse.

Okay, I looked through the whole thread, and haven't seen an official response.

Why would "there's a situation going on. Here's a page with every relevant fact" cause confusion and lack of productivity? Panicked people are uninformed people.

Fresh-eyed movie blog
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#89: Apr 22nd 2012 at 3:14:20 PM

At least they DID put in a headline, even though it's kind of hard to see.

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#90: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:02:03 PM

[up][up]If you just looked at this thread, yeah, you won't see an official response. Might I suggest looking at the General Announcements thread under the FAQ sub-forum?

Yeah, I didn't know that thread existed until recently ether. But if the mods start using it on a regular basis and people watch it, it would solve a number of complaints.

Thought to actually answer your question: People are going to be upset no matter what. By putting off the announcement until the "solution" is mostly figured out, you can explain both at the same time and head off a number of complaints.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
TParadox Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
#91: Apr 22nd 2012 at 8:39:19 PM

If you just looked at this thread, yeah, you won't see an official response. Might I suggest looking at the General Announcements thread under the FAQ sub-forum?

That does not have a response to the question posed. It has an after-action report of the recent craziness, but no policy about informing tropers about things that are currently happening.

Also it needs to be much more visible, which again plays to the concerns raised above.

Fresh-eyed movie blog
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#92: Apr 22nd 2012 at 8:44:49 PM

I understand the impulse not to tell people about it until it's finished, but cutting pages is telling people about it. That's the problem, you can't both implement the policy and not let anyone know about it.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#93: Apr 22nd 2012 at 8:50:11 PM

No, there should have been a page explaining everything for the people who did notice. We dropped the ball there. Nevertheless, we stand behind not notifying everyone during the transition period, because that would cause a mass panic even with full disclosure. (Been there, done that, don't want to go back. Even if there is a full explanation posted and easy to find, people still run around like chickens with their heads cut off.)

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#94: Apr 22nd 2012 at 8:51:14 PM

I think there was sort of a mass panic, with all those troll cuts.

TParadox Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
#95: Apr 22nd 2012 at 10:15:49 PM

So what we're getting down to is "mass panic happens whether you talk about what's going on or not."

Fresh-eyed movie blog
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#96: Apr 22nd 2012 at 11:34:56 PM

There are actually different types of panic depending on how obvious the change is, how "complete" the change is, and how much information is given out. If it's still not clear how a certain part of the change is going to play out, even with all the information that the staff can hand out (and I do mean everything we know), there will always be panic, and spreading the knowledge of the change as wide as possible only increases the amount of panic. If there are no longer speculative elements, the amount of panic is significantly decreased. As far as can be determined from past incidents, the recipe for minimizing panic for a change is something like:

  • Be open about changes that affect the day-to-day operation of the wiki.
  • Post this information where it can easily be found for someone looking for it, but not easy to stumble across (see below).
  • Minimize the spread of the information to people who aren't already looking for it.
  • Once there are no longer speculative elements (i.e. the change is complete), spread the information about such changes widely. (Not only does hold off the announcement until this point decrease panic over speculative elements, but it also moves the bulk of the panic to a time when panic won't interfere as much with getting feedback, tweaking details, and so forth.)
  • Don't post anything that doesn't affect day-to-day operations unless it's absolutely necessary.
Telling everyone everything as soon as possible only invites outrageous speculation and more than makes up for any decrease in panic per panicking person by an increase in volume.

edited 22nd Apr '12 11:36:33 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
TheOneWhoTropes Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty from Newton-le-willows, quaint town Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty
#97: Apr 23rd 2012 at 4:09:46 AM

Not telling people IS stupid. Also, this is not comparable to last time - last time was 2 weeks before the change was happening. The change is happening NOW. People need to be informed by the staff, not Tropers examining recent edit reasons for people trolling.

Keeper of The Celestial Flame
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#98: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:28:33 AM

[up][up]Going to have to remember "speculative elements" when describing what is going on. Could not think of a good way do describe why "waiting for the 'solution' to be implemented reduces panic/problems on the website."

[up]

Not telling people IS stupid. Also, this is not comparable to last time - last time was 2 weeks before the change was happening. The change is happening NOW. People need to be informed by the staff, not Tropers examining recent edit reasons for people trolling.

Past evidence (that 2 week's notice you mention being a primary exhibit) points to putting up an announcement where everyone, including people who would not normally notice the change, can't help but see it interferes with completing the change. This is because you get people going strait to the thread and posting complaints/questions without reading through the rest of the thread—ie. people making the same points over and over. This wastes time better spent on figuring out how the change should be done more smoothly.

It has already been stated that the mods dropped the ball by not creating a page explaining exactly what was going on for the people that started searching for information even without the announcement. What more can you ask for on that front?

As for a compromise, they have already posted in the General Announcements thread. If they start using that on a regular basis, then people who are interested in this sort of stuff can watch it and be informed.

@ the trolling part: My understanding is that it is hard to be an unintentional/uninformed troll. I have no idea what you are talking about in that last sentence because people "trolling" would not need to be informed of the situation.

Finally, if you have a clear reason for why putting up an announcement right now would be a good idea, say so. By just saying "that is stupid" you are A) not explaining why you think the current method is bad/your method is better and B) proving the point about people posting in the threads without contributing.

Just imagining dozens of people who post without contributing (just to say "really?" "*random reaction that does not explain their thoughts*" "*asks same question that has been answered*" etc.) in a "here is the change, now help us figure out how to go about it" thread gives me chills.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#99: Apr 23rd 2012 at 8:55:33 AM

By definition, you can't make major changes without people finding out. You can decide how you tell them, but not whether to.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
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