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YKTTW tags. Do you USE them?

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Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#1: Apr 14th 2012 at 2:38:01 PM

...because nobody else does!

Every time I surf the YKTTW, it feels like ninety percent of YKTTW's just aren't using tags. Any time where people have even considered tags, they are typed into the draft the old-fashioned way.

We need to promote the new tag system more obviously. Being able to add/remove tags from a YKTTW's permanent page is good, but not enough.

The ability to add/remove tags needs to be included as part of the create/edit YKTTW form — a group of checkboxes below the "draft description" text box will do. If people see that the feature is available, then they will use it.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2: Apr 14th 2012 at 2:41:15 PM

I have the feeling that one of the reasons here is that the other winning options of the YKTTW crowner were never implemented.

That been said, adding a note about tags in the create YKTTW form isn't a bad idea.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3: Apr 14th 2012 at 3:44:22 PM

I've had people remove tags from my YKTTWs.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:44:30 PM by troacctid

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#4: Apr 14th 2012 at 3:45:52 PM

-starts foaming-

That [up] is so annoying.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:46:03 PM by lu127

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#5: Apr 14th 2012 at 5:10:34 PM

I use them, but I find that they vanish after a while. I'm not so sure people are removing them as they just don't stick that well. That and the fact that I think a lot of people click on them to see what they are only to have them vanish.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#6: Apr 14th 2012 at 5:19:52 PM

Honestly, I didn't know the tag system even existed prior to reading this thread.

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#7: Apr 14th 2012 at 5:51:17 PM

I stuck a couple on the one I made a week or two back...makes me think, I need to check it and see if it's picked up any hats.

EDIT: No, but the tags were removed...grrrr. I added one back plus a new one.

edited 14th Apr '12 5:53:39 PM by Willbyr

Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#8: Apr 14th 2012 at 10:03:17 PM

Wait, what if disappearing tags is a bug laying around?

  • We don't even have a "remove tag" button? Oh, wait, that's what clicking the tag is for.
  • I can still apply the same tag multiple times to the same YKTTW.

edited 14th Apr '12 10:13:04 PM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#9: Apr 15th 2012 at 12:18:29 AM

Wait, what if disappearing tags is a bug laying around?
Who knows? There could be a troll going around randomly removing all the tags from everything and we'd never know the difference.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#10: Apr 15th 2012 at 3:20:35 AM

[up]It's called vandal, not troll.

Is it possible to create a tagging history?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#11: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:08:23 AM

^ @5: IMHO, the dropdown list is what should be responsible for adding/removing tags. If there's no such tag on the YKTTW, it's added. If there is, it's removed. That would at least rule out tags being removed "accidentally".

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#12: Apr 18th 2012 at 6:10:19 PM

I've also noticed that tags tend to disappear. It's rather annoying when you have to re-tag the same YKKTW multiple times, which may be contributing to their disuse.

Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#13: Apr 19th 2012 at 8:22:15 PM

From what I can tell they just don't "disappear" over time - there are some YKTTW's far down the list that I put tags on ages ago and the tags are still there.

So either somebody's removing the tags (possibly accidentally) or there's a glitch.

Can a YKTTW's history be modified to log (and show) when tags were added/removed? Then we can at least confirm whether it's the former.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
tustin2121 Since: Oct, 2010
#14: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:28:36 AM

(Digging up old thread...)

Ah, so tags COULD be removed at one time before. Can it still happen? Because there's some a-hole who's adding tags like "Move to Discard" and "Tropeworthy?" to perfectly tropeworthy suggestions, and the tags CANNOT be removed! Why can other people (ie, non-sponsors) add tags to these without being tagged as an editor anyway??

And why can I add more than one type of tag?! (I'm very tempted to add a single tag 50 times to one post just to bring the bug forward [lol])

edited 14th Nov '12 8:31:28 AM by tustin2121

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#15: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:30:09 AM

Like what suggestions, for instance?

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
videogmer314 from that one place Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:32:17 AM

Why can other people (ie, non-sponsors) add tags to these without being tagged as an editor anyway??

Do you really think someone would tag their own YKTTW that they wrote with an indicator that will probably lead to said writing becoming wasted effort?

tustin2121 Since: Oct, 2010
#17: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:33:05 AM

@lu: My own, for one. That's how I came across him to begin with. But also other people's. Do you want me to link to specific YKTT Ws?

@videogmr: They could tag their own with "Motion to Discard" if they feel that they've made a YKTTW that's already a valid trope...

edited 14th Nov '12 8:34:43 AM by tustin2121

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#18: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:36:31 AM

If you can link them, it would help.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#19: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:36:33 AM

Which YKTT Ws? Can you link them here?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
tustin2121 Since: Oct, 2010
#20: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:42:50 AM

Ok, well, here's a couple:

Mine: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=4u39xqj2y6m0d94oru5xlr80

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=f38q2n43nhlhwj9s83karvc1

(EDIT:) https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=ilg56dhe8ew2ttr1rw64vj8p

...looks like someone else is cleaning them up.

I mean, this wasn't my intention: I wanted a way for me, as the sponsor of a YKTTW to be able to add and remove tags at will, not to have to ask moderators to do so... Also, why CAN others add tags? It seems as rude as editing someone else's YKTTW...

edited 14th Nov '12 8:43:51 AM by tustin2121

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#21: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:47:56 AM

The last one should be discarded as it's an Audience Reaction we already have. We don't need it again. The rest are fine now. Most tropes that get flaged deserve it from what I've seen.

Other people should be editing your YKTTW. They should be adding tags. We need to get rid of the attitude that it's rude. That causes a lot of ownership issues and problems down the line.

edited 14th Nov '12 8:48:56 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
tustin2121 Since: Oct, 2010
#22: Nov 14th 2012 at 8:52:15 AM

I was unaware that we should be editing the YKTTW's directly. I mean, if that's the case, what's the Rolling Update phrase, the comment system, and the "sponsor" thing for? And, again with the tags, no one (except moderators it seems?) can remove them... :/

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#23: Nov 14th 2012 at 9:10:19 AM

My understanding of Rolling Updates is a bit different...generally, editing a YKTTW to add an example/correct spelling errors/formatting or namespaces isn't something that should be considered rude. The issue I see is if someone unilaterally mames a big change to the description, which basically changes the concept of the draft.

A sponsor is meant to "nourish" a YKTTW, monitor it and finally launch it, but he doesn't have any exquisite ownership over it. We unfortunately face the issue often, and some sponsors refuse to accept their idea is actually a duplicate/Not A Trope.

Sorry for the tag inconvenience. We disabled removing them because some people kept removing the discard tags even though they were clearly not tropeworthy.

edited 14th Nov '12 9:10:44 AM by lu127

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#24: Nov 15th 2012 at 6:13:03 AM

The purpose of the tags is for other people to let you know that there are issues with the trope. Yes, you can tag it with issues you know it has, but if that were the main purpose it would be a lot easier to add them when creating a YKTTW.

The original post is supposed to be a "draft" of the finished article. That means it can be edited like any wiki article. The comments are primarily for discussing issues with the article as opposed to tweaking the description or adding examples, much like the discussion pages are supposed to be for. This is also part of the purpose of the tag system, to keep such nattery messages out of the article text like they used to be. That's not as inconsistent with the previous paragraph as it seems.

In general, most people on the forums would prefer if YKTT Ws weren't "owned" at all, but rather were wholly collaborative efforts to create new tropes, in keeping with the spirit of the rest of the wiki. In practice, of course, YKTTW benefits from having a single vision for people to follow and that can be refined by the discussion, and we'll probably never get rid of "ownership" entirely, not that most of us really care about it. We adopted the "sponsor" terminology partly to emphasize this notion of the OP's role as an idea man and leader as opposed to an owner. Rolling Updates is a sign of how, in practice, the "ownership" culture remains far more the norm at YKTTW than even the "draft" idea.

^We need a discussion of how to make sure tags are only removed when it's warranted for them to be removed, without banning removal entirely. One simple way would be for them to work similarly to the hat system, but that seems like a really bad idea. At the very least, though, the person who added a tag should be able to remove it.

edited 15th Nov '12 6:20:39 AM by MorganWick

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#25: Nov 15th 2012 at 10:15:18 AM

Ye, ideally there should be some way for other-than-mods to remove tags that doesn't allow people to simply remove a tag because they don't like it.

But for now, if you think a tag is undeserved, either PM a mod with a direct link to the YKTTW in question and an explanation of which tag(s) you think should be removed and why, or use the Holler button on a post and in the reply box say that you aren't hollering that post but simply using it to deliver the message, then give us the same information (a direct link to the YKTTW, which tag(s) should be removed and why.)

From there we'll take a look at the YKTTW, and your reasons for thinking the tag should be removed and make a decision.

Using the Holler button will most likely get a faster response, since all the mods will see it, and any mod can fix it. A PM will sit until that particular mod checks their inbox.


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