TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Content Policy Change

Go To

HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#1401: Apr 16th 2012 at 9:33:10 AM

Is there going to be an Index Prohibitorum Paginarum visible to readers, of works that have been cut and aren't coming back? It may be helpful in discouraging people from linking those, or even adding them as examples, and could give people some guidance as to what works are likely to be disallowed without there having to be rules that can be lawyered

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1402: Apr 16th 2012 at 9:33:53 AM

[up]Isn't that what Permanent Red Link Club is for?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#1403: Apr 16th 2012 at 9:50:02 AM

PRLC is mostly tropes right now; I'm ok with adding works under a heading explaining that they're porn.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#1404: Apr 16th 2012 at 9:51:40 AM

Eddie does not personaly know the works. Because of that, he is taking the "safe" rute and getting rid of them untill the Council, who prasumably will know something about most of the works, makes a decision.

From my perspective, the safe route would not be taking any action prior to acquiring more information.

That's why I'm trying to make sure the council is knowledgeable in general about all the different forms of fiction. My goal is to move away from the point where Fast Eddie, or anyone else, is forced to make a decision without possessing knowledge of the issue at hand.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#1405: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:06:25 AM

For the people who were looking for the fanfic recs, the Internet Archive is your friend, although the latest archived page is from last year.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1406: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:14:24 AM

@ animeg Google had no adds on that pages. We're still not sure what their issue was. We're trying to figure it out. We still don't have adsense back.
Well, it's about time someone answered the oft-repeated but consistently-ignored/forgotten questions about this very issue. tongue

Marq, hopefully your concerns will be allayed... if more than one anime/manga fan gets on the council. I of course can't say that that will be the case, but hopefully it will be. Would your concerns then be allayed by nature of having a "voice of reason" in the group?
Not necessarily an anime/manga fan; it's sufficient if they have enough of a general idea of anime/manga/Japanese media's overall peculiarities in comparison to Western media, and also wary enough of misinformation by hatedoms and Vocal Minority groups on both sides. Also note that even the anime/manga super-fandom can get quite divisive on certain topics and/or standards; you can find anime fans who utterly loathe Minky Momo or Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha for being "vile pedophilia-fapping vehicles". No, I'm not kidding; there are people who genuinely believe in that, and thankfully they are an ineffectual minority at best.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#1407: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:16:31 AM

(I've been trying to play catch-up for the past 50+ pages, so...)

For those who are requesting the immediate return of pages like Lolita, where the literary merit of the work supposedly exceeds the controversial content, I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint. I agree with those who feel that the indiscriminate cutting of pages was a mistake - an understandable one, given the circumstances. The damage has already been done. But I would suggest putting such pages through council vetting instead:

  • It's fair. If we want to ensure that the decision to cut or keep is not based on snap judgements, then it should apply uniformly to any sufficiently-controversial work that comes under scrutiny.
  • It allows us to validate the system. If these works are as clear-cut as is claimed, they should pass without issue - but if we get an unexpected (for the vast majority) result, perhaps the vetting process is the one that needs refining.

I believe that knee-jerk reactions won't help matters, no matter what form they come in or who they're executed by, and I just hope that the process by which works are selected / rejected is transparent enough for the average troper to see and understand, even if he / she may not completely agree with the final decision.

*

edited 16th Apr '12 10:37:48 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#1408: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:23:32 AM

A quick check of Fan Fic Recommendations showed more good than bad, so they are restored. The bad will still be weeded out shortly.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1409: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:24:57 AM

[up]Uh, I think you screwed up the formatting there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1410: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:25:17 AM

Specifically, several links are in need of braces to work properly, like the Yugioh ones.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:25:41 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#1411: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:28:49 AM

I believe that knee-jerk reactions won't help matters, no matter what form they come in or who they're executed by, and I just hope that the process by which works are selected / rejected is transparent enough for the average troper to see and understand, even if he / she may not completely agree with the final decision.

I just want to reiterate this, because I think it applies to both the tropers and the staff. The initial reactions are always the strongest ones, and I don't think that those are what should determine overall policy. It would help a lot for both sides of the discussion to just have some patience. On the staff side, I think it would really help put a lot of fears to rest if all the cutting gets stopped until the council is established so it won't create more work for them if they have to put stuff back. Not to mention that one the porn and hentai indexes were cut, it probably took out the majority of the inappropriate work. The stuff that's left is probably obscure enough that it won't cause any problems in the next few days or so, and if it does it can still be cut easily.

On the troper side, I think we just need to chill for a bit and wait for the moderation to finish putting the council together. I realize that everyone (myself included) wants to see action, but the more time they spend putting the council together and making sure it'll work, the more likely it will work. I have no doubt that they could have gotten it up and running sooner, but if it had just been thrown together in a day it would be much less likely to function well, and we'd have to scrap the idea and go back to square one. This is a big enough issue that we can't just throw together a quick solution.

@Eddie: Awesome. smile

edited 16th Apr '12 10:29:32 AM by JapaneseTeeth

Reaction Image Repository
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1412: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:28:59 AM

[up][up]Or just make a link to the list

[up]Sure. And a look at Cut List tells me that the cutting moratorium is still not there.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:29:36 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1413: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:31:15 AM

I thought Martello was posting here and thus should've gotten the memo about not cutlisting anything yet?

edited 16th Apr '12 10:33:52 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#1414: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:32:27 AM

I wasn't aware of that "memo." I know we're not supposed to cutlist "questionable" things, but I didn't think that page was very questionable. I was alerted to it and checked it out, actually went through a few issues of the manga on mangareader.com, and it looked pretty bad.

If I'm wrong the cutmaster won't cut it, and then it will come up for discussion once the committee convenes.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:34:52 AM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1415: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:34:43 AM

There was a moratorium on cutlisting pages for "pedoshit" or "porn" until the council convenes over a dozen pages ago. And the cited page only depicts an Imagine Spot; from the character's reaction, he never does such a thing.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1416: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:34:45 AM

The only thing that has been actually cut recently is Debbie Does Dallas, and that is just a porn film. It really is completely uncontroversial.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:35:16 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
InsanityPrelude Since: Aug, 2009
#1417: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:38:41 AM

I'm looking at the various fanfic tropes- would it be safe to assume links to explicit fanfic fall under the new policy, since Fanfic Recs was pulled down for that reason?

I probably should have asked this sooner.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1418: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:40:33 AM

Yes, do not link to porn. Thanks.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#1419: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:44:11 AM

Debbie Does Dallas is the codifier for a couple of porn title tropes, which show up in works that are not pornographic.

I know we're not supposed to cutlist "questionable" things, but I didn't think that page was very questionable.

That's the problem. No one thinks the stuff they want to cut is questionable.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:44:27 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
encrypted12345 Since: Jun, 2010
#1420: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:46:24 AM

[up] Yes. It's best not to do anything right now and not act on personal judgement even if it's highly justified.

@Martello -_-

edited 16th Apr '12 10:52:35 AM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode
InsanityPrelude Since: Aug, 2009
#1421: Apr 16th 2012 at 10:48:28 AM

Where do non-pornographic fics that happen to be hosted on a Kink Meme stand? There's a few of those on the recs for one of my main fandoms.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:49:13 AM by InsanityPrelude

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#1422: Apr 16th 2012 at 11:11:16 AM

Isn't linking to an explicit site a no-no even if the specific page itself is innocent?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#1424: Apr 16th 2012 at 11:15:34 AM

[up] Is that a new policy change? Because in the previous cleanup threads it was repeatedly said that links to, or that went through, a warning page were acceptable.

edited 16th Apr '12 11:16:03 AM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
encrypted12345 Since: Jun, 2010
#1425: Apr 16th 2012 at 11:16:32 AM

[up] It was a recent change I believe.

Full Battle Mode

Total posts: 2,191
Top