Anyway my point is that, by choosing this "third option," we won't get un-informed people messing up our current conversation or having us go back in circles for the umpteenth time (the Mods' main argument against "announcing" it now), we will announce it at some point so that people know what is going on (what a number tropers here—including me—want), and can head off an amount of panic by having examples to point out to people new to the conversation.
It is certainly the best option I can think of.
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!@abstractematics: If there are any rumors about them being scary, I confess that I've yet to hear any. "The problem" is not that people don't visit the fora. that's their choice. Delaying an announcement will only encourage rumors and feed the backlash.
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival"Perversity" is a bad word choice; it's heavily associated with puritanical Moral Guardians and reactionary religious condemnations. It also fails to make clear that the ban only extends to (as I understand it) Porn Without Plot and explicitly pedophilic works.
@Belian: When is "at some point?" Now, the point about people being uninformed clogging the boards is a weak one, because if they were informed, they wouldn't have to ask so many questions to become informed, and anyone who wants to has the right to join the discussion. If they're so uninformed, they might not even know about the fora anyway.
It's just, you won't need to explain it so many times if you announce it to everyone.
edited 15th Apr '12 10:59:51 PM by condottiera
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival![]()
It also extends to Porn That Has A Plot As An Excuse To Have Porn. Basically when there's a skeleton of a narrative that just goes from graphic sex to graphic sex.
@condottiera
I don't know what to say, honestly, given both sides of the issue. All I can suggest is to make a place, perhaps a thread within Wiki Talk itself, for such announcements. It's so that tropers with the sense of responsibility for metawiki issues will have to manually check that place for any heads-up. Everyone else, who only care about editing tropes/works, will have to live with decisions already made because they declined to participate.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:03:05 PM by abstractematics
Now using Trivialis handle.@shimaspawn: OK, maybe this is not what I'm supposed to be getting here, but it sounds a little like Complaining About Shows You Dont Like. I don't like porn and neither do you, but some people do and we can't pretend that they don't exist. There's a good reason not to have porn on the site, but why can't we trope them?
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festivalSo you're saying that there should be a thread in wiki talk that mentions every thread in wiki talk? All of the metawiki stuff is in one dedicated place without any of the trope or IP stuff. That place is wiki talk.
As for the porn, if it's pure porn, there's nothing to trope but sex and the list of tropes itself just turns into more porn.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:06:20 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickThe reason most Tropers don't hang out here is that it's not usually relevant to them. When something is relevant to most Tropers, they should be told about it. If they're not told that we're dealing with something substantially different from our typical fare, they have a right to be angry. And they will be angry when they find out.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:05:45 PM by feotakahari
That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful![]()
Not all of them. Some of them are proposals put forth by a troper. But others are announcements initiated by the administration, like this one. Such major things.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:06:59 PM by abstractematics
Now using Trivialis handle.@abstractematics: So only those "with the sense of responsibility for metawiki issues" should deserve to know what's happening? I don't want to be mean spirited, but this harkens back to elitism. I didn't even know that this was a thing to be worried about until recently, because there was no way to find out. People can care about whatever they want to. Editors who spend hours contributing put just as much work into the wiki as you do. You should not feel superior to them just because you know more about how the wiki operates.
ninja: I understand not causing an upheaval over every little thing, but this is important. Consider it from the perspective of a troper who doesn't know about the fora.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:11:53 PM by condottiera
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival"So only those "with the sense of responsibility for metawiki issues" should deserve to know what's happening?"
In this case, I will say yes. If you care about not just tropes, but the stance of this site itself, then it is your responsibility to find this place and read it. It's not elitism if the choice is completely open.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:11:09 PM by abstractematics
Now using Trivialis handle.It's not an open choice if you don't know there's a choice.
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festivalEverybody is important to the operation of the site, and that includes you, me, and any editor who cares enough to do a good job.
And thanks
edited 15th Apr '12 11:14:32 PM by condottiera
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festivalWell, I agree that it should be more visible. Beyond that, I'm sticking with my case.
How did you find this place, out of curiosity?
Now using Trivialis handle.There's a link here from every page on the wiki. I managed to find it my first day on TV Tropes. It's not very hard to get here. I'm betting that before this you never were curious about where the wiki decisions were made.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick@abstractematics: Oh, I've been frantically searching the site for information ever since the day Lolita disappeared.
I normally don't pay attention to that sort of stuff. I'm not very comfortable talking to people most of the time anyway, and I'm only here now because this matters so much to me.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:17:29 PM by condottiera
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival"Everybody is important to the operation of the site, and that includes you, me, and any editor who cares enough to do a good job."
But not everyone is interested in every topic. If there's news about something that doesn't interest you, the choice is still there, but you have to take that choice.
This is why we have different namespaces, categories, and forums especially. We don't mix OTC debates and forum games and different media topics all in one page. Instead, you click on the section you want to visit.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:17:30 PM by abstractematics
Now using Trivialis handle.@condottiera: Let me ask you a question in return: What is the point of letting them become informed right now?
Eddie and the mods have a good idea of what they are doing. Why get more people involved before we can explain exactly how everything will be working?
Though to be more specific, I was thinking that after FSN and Lolita (to chose the two most talked about ones) or the first couple that the council actively discusses would be when we make the announcement.
@the making these sorts of things more visible in general: We already have a couple
of threads
that were started to discuss this issue. It should probably be taken there.
@my word choice for describing the flag: Who knows what it will end up being called? I just put that in there so people would know what I was talking about. Feel free to suggest other words, but the only other one that fits (that I can think of) is calling it the "porn" flag. Everything else has worse connotations or is wrong (we can't call it a "sex" flag because we are not getting rid of all sex on the site).
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
That's right. @abstractematics: Can you decide what they will take interest in? I can assure you that everytroper who finds out that Lolita was blocked with a banner message that said "We do not want this here" will find it very interesting if you gave them a chance.
edited 15th Apr '12 11:20:44 PM by condottiera
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival

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Maybe it's different in Australia. Also, I just realized that this has nothing to do with anything.
More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival