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condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1226: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:52:24 PM

[up][up] Maybe it's different in Australia. Also, I just realized that this has nothing to do with anything.

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#1227: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:55:41 PM

Anyway my point is that, by choosing this "third option," we won't get un-informed people messing up our current conversation or having us go back in circles for the umpteenth time (the Mods' main argument against "announcing" it now), we will announce it at some point so that people know what is going on (what a number tropers here—including me—want), and can head off an amount of panic by having examples to point out to people new to the conversation.

It is certainly the best option I can think of.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1228: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:55:45 PM

@abstractematics: If there are any rumors about them being scary, I confess that I've yet to hear any. "The problem" is not that people don't visit the fora. that's their choice. Delaying an announcement will only encourage rumors and feed the backlash.

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
Enthryn (they/them) Since: Nov, 2010
(they/them)
#1229: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:57:09 PM

"Perversity" is a bad word choice; it's heavily associated with puritanical Moral Guardians and reactionary religious condemnations. It also fails to make clear that the ban only extends to (as I understand it) Porn Without Plot and explicitly pedophilic works.

condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1230: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:57:33 PM

@Belian: When is "at some point?" Now, the point about people being uninformed clogging the boards is a weak one, because if they were informed, they wouldn't have to ask so many questions to become informed, and anyone who wants to has the right to join the discussion. If they're so uninformed, they might not even know about the fora anyway.

It's just, you won't need to explain it so many times if you announce it to everyone.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:59:51 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1231: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:59:01 PM

[up][up] It also extends to Porn That Has A Plot As An Excuse To Have Porn. Basically when there's a skeleton of a narrative that just goes from graphic sex to graphic sex.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1232: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:02:52 PM

@condottiera

I don't know what to say, honestly, given both sides of the issue. All I can suggest is to make a place, perhaps a thread within Wiki Talk itself, for such announcements. It's so that tropers with the sense of responsibility for metawiki issues will have to manually check that place for any heads-up. Everyone else, who only care about editing tropes/works, will have to live with decisions already made because they declined to participate.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:03:05 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1233: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:03:29 PM

@shimaspawn: OK, maybe this is not what I'm supposed to be getting here, but it sounds a little like Complaining About Shows You Dont Like. I don't like porn and neither do you, but some people do and we can't pretend that they don't exist. There's a good reason not to have porn on the site, but why can't we trope them?

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1234: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:05:00 PM

So you're saying that there should be a thread in wiki talk that mentions every thread in wiki talk? All of the metawiki stuff is in one dedicated place without any of the trope or IP stuff. That place is wiki talk.

As for the porn, if it's pure porn, there's nothing to trope but sex and the list of tropes itself just turns into more porn.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:06:20 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#1235: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:05:06 PM

The reason most Tropers don't hang out here is that it's not usually relevant to them. When something is relevant to most Tropers, they should be told about it. If they're not told that we're dealing with something substantially different from our typical fare, they have a right to be angry. And they will be angry when they find out.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:05:45 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1236: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:06:15 PM

[up][up]Not all of them. Some of them are proposals put forth by a troper. But others are announcements initiated by the administration, like this one. Such major things.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:06:59 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1237: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:07:24 PM

But what one person considers major, another considers minor. Just about everything that's come up in wiki talk has been major to someone. We can't headline every thread. People will stop paying attention.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1238: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:09:00 PM

@abstractematics: So only those "with the sense of responsibility for metawiki issues" should deserve to know what's happening? I don't want to be mean spirited, but this harkens back to elitism. I didn't even know that this was a thing to be worried about until recently, because there was no way to find out. People can care about whatever they want to. Editors who spend hours contributing put just as much work into the wiki as you do. You should not feel superior to them just because you know more about how the wiki operates.

ninja: I understand not causing an upheaval over every little thing, but this is important. Consider it from the perspective of a troper who doesn't know about the fora.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:11:53 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1239: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:10:31 PM

"So only those "with the sense of responsibility for metawiki issues" should deserve to know what's happening?"

In this case, I will say yes. If you care about not just tropes, but the stance of this site itself, then it is your responsibility to find this place and read it. It's not elitism if the choice is completely open.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:11:09 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1240: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:12:25 PM

It's not an open choice if you don't know there's a choice.

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#1241: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:14:13 PM

I'm actually going to have to back up the elitism claim here.

[down] Don't mention it, it's been bothering me for a while.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:15:28 PM by Vyctorian

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1242: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:14:15 PM

Everybody is important to the operation of the site, and that includes you, me, and any editor who cares enough to do a good job.

[up] And thanks

edited 15th Apr '12 11:14:32 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1243: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:14:24 PM

Well, I agree that it should be more visible. Beyond that, I'm sticking with my case.

How did you find this place, out of curiosity?

Now using Trivialis handle.
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1245: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:15:32 PM

There's a link here from every page on the wiki. I managed to find it my first day on TV Tropes. It's not very hard to get here. I'm betting that before this you never were curious about where the wiki decisions were made.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1246: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:15:35 PM

@abstractematics: Oh, I've been frantically searching the site for information ever since the day Lolita disappeared.

I normally don't pay attention to that sort of stuff. I'm not very comfortable talking to people most of the time anyway, and I'm only here now because this matters so much to me.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:17:29 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1247: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:16:48 PM

"Everybody is important to the operation of the site, and that includes you, me, and any editor who cares enough to do a good job."

But not everyone is interested in every topic. If there's news about something that doesn't interest you, the choice is still there, but you have to take that choice.

This is why we have different namespaces, categories, and forums especially. We don't mix OTC debates and forum games and different media topics all in one page. Instead, you click on the section you want to visit.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:17:30 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#1248: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:17:03 PM

@condottiera: Let me ask you a question in return: What is the point of letting them become informed right now?

Eddie and the mods have a good idea of what they are doing. Why get more people involved before we can explain exactly how everything will be working?

Though to be more specific, I was thinking that after FSN and Lolita (to chose the two most talked about ones) or the first couple that the council actively discusses would be when we make the announcement.

@the making these sorts of things more visible in general: We already have a couple of threads that were started to discuss this issue. It should probably be taken there.

@my word choice for describing the flag: Who knows what it will end up being called? I just put that in there so people would know what I was talking about. Feel free to suggest other words, but the only other one that fits (that I can think of) is calling it the "porn" flag. Everything else has worse connotations or is wrong (we can't call it a "sex" flag because we are not getting rid of all sex on the site).

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Enthryn (they/them) Since: Nov, 2010
(they/them)
#1249: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:17:51 PM

Most issues discussed in Wiki Talk don't result in mass deletions without any notice elsewhere. I suspect that many editors who normally wouldn't have any interest in the goings-on of Wiki Talk will indeed want to have input on this matter.

condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1250: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:19:41 PM

[up]That's right. @abstractematics: Can you decide what they will take interest in? I can assure you that everytroper who finds out that Lolita was blocked with a banner message that said "We do not want this here" will find it very interesting if you gave them a chance.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:20:44 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival

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