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condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1201: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:26:39 PM

1. People have to find out eventually.

2. People will get mad.

3. They will be less mad if you are honest by letting them know what's going on now.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:26:48 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
RocketDude Since: May, 2009
#1202: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:28:51 PM

That is true, so the question is this: tell them now and try to make them understand and deal with the fallout, or wait for everyone to find out over a longer period of time and deal with the fallout?

Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
#1203: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:30:04 PM

[up][up]That makes sense. smile

People will probably get really mad when they hear about this and learn there was no announcement. They'll feel the mods and admins ignored them and stuff.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:30:10 PM by Bookyangel2438

Alt account of Angeldog 2437.
Enthryn (they/them) Since: Nov, 2010
(they/them)
#1204: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:30:43 PM

I understand that the moderators want to avoid the complaints that people would make if there was an announcement now, but most everyone is going to find out about this eventually. If there's no clear announcement, not only will there be misinformation floating around for a long time, but you'll end up with a lot of angry editors who don't find out for a while and feel left out of the process.

Some people might even leave for good if they feel their input isn't valued and official policy is too unreliable and unpredictable. (I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but that's how people might perceive it if they only hear about this when it's too late to discuss.)

abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1205: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:31:08 PM

[up]x3 Well, but we're not merely dealing with the fallout, but actually voicing what should be done with it.

[up]Indeed. But like I said, I just don't know.

My thoughts right now is that instead of these sectional changes we need to look at it in a more fundamental way.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:33:42 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
#1206: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:31:49 PM

[up][up]Yup. smile

Honestly, I think it's better to bite the bullet and make an announcement rather than waiting until it's too late for people to give opinions.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:31:54 PM by Bookyangel2438

Alt account of Angeldog 2437.
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#1207: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:32:39 PM

That is true, so the question is this: tell them now and try to make them understand and deal with the fallout, or wait for everyone to find out over a longer period of time and deal with the fallout?

In other words: either way we do it, we lose.

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#1208: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:32:47 PM

From what I've gotten from the mods, every time they've done a headline the thread always turned into a storm of bitching, and derails with nothing good added.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1210: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:35:52 PM

I agree. I am just an editor who wound up here by accident because I happened to look for Lolita the day it was banned. I lost a lot of respect for the site when that happened, and I want to prevent it from happening to other people who go looking for things that got axed. It will only breed rumors and unhappiness to try to keep it a secret, especially when they find out you've been keeping it a secret in the first place.

So, we might as well just be honest right now, because then everyone will have less of a reason to be mad.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:36:44 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1211: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:36:04 PM

[up]x3 Maybe it's that a lot of us that already visit Wiki Talk know how this place works and can better respond to what happens.

Now using Trivialis handle.
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1212: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:39:58 PM

Now, I feel that there is a certain amount of elitism attached to the idea that only the people in the fora*

deserve to know what's going on. It's staring to seem like a bad conspiracy movie. I aim for complete transparency, and the fact that the fora are technically public doesn't matter if you know almost no one goes to them.

I have faith in my fellow tropers.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:41:36 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#1213: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:40:47 PM

"That is true, so the question is this: tell them now and try to make them understand and deal with the fallout, or wait for everyone to find out over a longer period of time and deal with the fallout? "

Take a Third Option: let us get a system in place to deal with the situation, let them deal with a couple of the more obvious issues, and then have a general announcement that explains exactly what happened/is going on with clear examples.

We won't be able to "hide" the issue for long anyways. Eddie is apparently working on a "perversity""perversion" flag that people can use and that, nearly by definition, will have to be visible for people to use.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:47:18 PM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
RocketDude Since: May, 2009
#1215: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:41:36 PM

I'm more for transparency in the moderation (or at least communication), but we already sort of have that, but non-fora users are going to end up here eventually, I predict.

encrypted12345 Since: Jun, 2010
#1216: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:41:59 PM

@condottiera I've met quite a few tropers in which I can't have faith in. I'll have to disagree with your idealism.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:42:30 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1217: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:43:56 PM

[up][up][up] I don't see how that's very different. People will still see things and not understand why they're there and find out on their own. They will feel like information had been kept from them, and get mad.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:44:15 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#1218: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:44:02 PM

Wait, 'perversity'? I thought 'perversity' meant a general refusal to do what is expected or wanted of you, not sexual deviancy/bad sexuality.

EDIT: Perhaps the word you mean is 'perversion'?

edited 15th Apr '12 10:45:17 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...
RocketDude Since: May, 2009
#1219: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:44:27 PM

^^^I don't entirely trust the userbase, but that means that I don't entirely trust that this will all blow over in the background.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:44:37 PM by RocketDude

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1220: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:45:36 PM

Perverse and deviant are synonyms. As such, they can be used interchangeably, at least in regards to sex.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#1221: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:45:48 PM

[up][up][up]Bad word choice then. brb

[up]though that is also true

edited 15th Apr '12 10:46:22 PM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1222: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:46:01 PM

"Sexual deviancy" has such a vague definition that it has almost no meaning. But it's like, being a pervert.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:47:04 PM by condottiera

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#1223: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:49:00 PM

That's not how I've always understood them, nor is it how they are defined on the online dictionary I just checked.

Perverse: willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary, wayward or cantankerous.

Perverted: changed to or being of an unnatural or abnormal kind: a perverted interest in death.

Similar roots, yes, but I always thought 'perverted' meant 'sick and wrong, usually in a sexual sense', while 'perverse' just meant cantankerous.

Be not afraid...
condottiera from Chicago Since: Oct, 2011
#1224: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:51:34 PM

@encrypted 12345: That's the thing. Before this whole screw-up began, I had no faith in humanity except for the few that were tropers. I guess I'm not so sure either anymore, but if they do something stupid and we let them know first, their to blame, not us. We shouldn't give them anymore reason to hate than they already have.

More pluck than an Alabama banjo festival
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#1225: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:52:07 PM

@condottiera

It shouldn't be a conspiracy, but doesn't the problem come from the tropers themselves not wanting to come due to rumors about forums being scary? Other than making this resource clear, I'm not sure what's the best.

Now using Trivialis handle.

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