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lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#726: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:55:25 AM

[up][up] That is exactly what will happen to whoever thinks it's a good idea to abuse the cutlist next. You have been warned by two moderators already.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:55:55 AM by lu127

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#727: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:55:50 AM

The Cut Masters are cutting all the things that we are being told not to place on the cut list and that we are being told will not be cut without careful consideration and discussion.

That seems more than a bit disingenuous to me.

EDIT PS: Thread about this issue is here.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:56:09 AM by Catbert

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#728: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:57:25 AM

Past experience shows that posting an announcement just floods the thread with people complaining about unrelated issues and no actual work can be done until the headline is removed. As such, we aren't doing headlines for the back end stuff any more.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#729: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:58:18 AM

[up]That was my point.

[up][up]It's an old problem that the Cut Masters work completely disconnected from the rest of the wiki.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#730: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:59:13 AM

On one hand, we have people being threatened with suspension for improper cut requests. On the other hand, you have the same requests being approved. Get your act together on what is happening right now before you expect people to trust a hypothetical future committee.

Nine Songs cut requested: 14th Apr cut date: 15th Apr

Article was cut. There may be discussion here.

Myrmidon: The movie is mostly about sex.

Creating red links in 5 articles.

Abandoning 3 inbound links.

Anatomy Of Hell cut requested: 14th Apr cut date: 15th Apr

Article was cut. There may be discussion here.

Myrmidon: Graphic sex

Creating red links in 22 articles.

Abandoning 173 inbound links.

Ken Park cut requested: 14th Apr cut date: 15th Apr

Article was cut. There may be discussion here.

Myrmidon: Sex scene featuring teenagers

Creating red links in 17 articles.

Abandoning 34 inbound links.

Sweet Movie cut requested: 14th Apr cut date: 15th Apr

Article was cut. There may be discussion here.

Myrmidon: Graphic sex

Creating red links in 12 articles.

Abandoning 111 inbound links.

EDIT PS: Thread about this issue is here.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:56:20 AM by Catbert

LMage Since: May, 2011
#731: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:59:14 AM

@Shim

I don't know about that. That makes it seem so...sneaky...when things like this are going on.

Opening up the process and discussion should always be a priority, and the value of more opinions should outweigh the issues raised by floods of the uninformed especially when informing then is as simple as a single post.

Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#732: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:00:44 AM

@Semptimus: It's a bad point. If people get upset about something that might be because it's, y'know, bad. The mere fact that it's viewed as necessary to prevent information about this getting to wiki genpop makes the entire thing deeply suspect.

Orwellian denial of information to all but a select few is never a sign of a system that's functioning well.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:03:01 AM by Night

Nous restons ici.
Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#733: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:00:54 AM

The question is, do we want massive outrage now, by announcing what's going on, or later, by not? There will be unjustified rage no matter what is done.

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#734: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:01:08 AM

If most/all of the committee members are not mods, cuts should be appealable to the mods (though decisions not to cut shouldn't be, that's the whole point of the committee). If this wouldn't bog down the mods. Obviously if a lot of cuts get restored that somewhat takes the teeth out of the committee*

, but the option should be there, as a safeguard.

I assume the composition of the committee will be on Know the Staff.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#735: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:01:29 AM

@L Mage - unfortunately that's not how it works in practice. For example, Eddie made it very clear in not one but several posts that the current situation is no longer about Google or ad revenue. But people still think it's about Google, even as we speak.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
LMage Since: May, 2011
#736: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:02:19 AM

[up]x3

I think rage over this issue will be completely justified when and if it comes.

All delaying that announcement does is send a message that those is charge don't want to deal with dissenting opinions.

[up]

The only way to fix that is by informing people of the reality, which can't be done if they aren't here to hear it.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:03:12 AM by LMage

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#737: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:03:19 AM

We're not preventing information from getting out. We have a dedicated place where this sort of thing happens and it always happens in the same place. There are constantly big discussions going on there and all of the information on large changes in the wiki are collected there. Anyone who is actually interested in that sort of thing can easily find it and is free to participate.

That place is Wiki Talk.

Posting information in multiple places (this includes headlines) just causes more confusion and makes it harder for people to know what's actually happening. Despite what you may thing, headlines for the back end stuff make people less informed.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:05:06 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#738: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:05:08 AM

I agree with L Mage. People don't complain about the announcement, they complain (when they do) about the thing being announced. If it's announced after the fact, they complain then, and feel — rightly — that they've been shut out of the process; if it's never announced, all the more so.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#739: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:06:44 AM

I am inclined to agree with shimaspawn that if you aren't taking part in Wiki Talk decisions, you don't have any permission to complain afterwards about policy changes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LMage Since: May, 2011
#740: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:06:47 AM

@Shim

I'm sorry to say that I find that...flawed.

There are many well known reasons as to why people don't come to wiki talk, and many of those might have something of value to place to the argument. Those same people depend on the headlines and other sources to learn when something big is underway so they can contribute.

It's not right to conserve power and input, especially one something as large as this to people that happen to like frequenting Wiki Talk.

Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#741: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:07:10 AM

To echo Shima's post above - it's like people in a small town complaining because even though there were multiple meetings going on at the town hall to decide a new law, nobody called them to tell them what decisions are being made. Everyone knows, or should know, that Wiki Talk is where decisions on the site as a whole are made. If they can't be bothered to skim the sub forum every now and again, that's just laziness.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:08:07 AM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#742: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:07:34 AM

@shima: And yet how many people actually visit and post in wiki talk? Indeed, how many of the actual editors of the wiki visit the forums at all?

Your assumptions, Shima, are founded on logical quicksand. You yourself have posited that the reason we don't have thousands of people in here raging is because it hasn't been headlined, and that this is intentional. But you claim it's not an effort to deprive the hypothetical thousands angry poster of this information at all.

That's an impressive level of cognitive dissonance.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:07:55 AM by Night

Nous restons ici.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#743: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:07:40 AM

[up][up][up]Which good reasons? And if they have one, why do they come and complain and why would they care about the headline?

[up]I'd agree with this sentiment if it weren't for all the trouble that calling uninterested and uninformed people in always give us.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:08:34 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#744: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:08:59 AM

What I want to know is why members of the staff, namely the Cut Masters, are not following the policies that have been set forth in this thread and other threads.

That is a very serious issue.

EDIT PS: Thread about this issue is here.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:56:33 AM by Catbert

LMage Since: May, 2011
#745: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:09:03 AM

@Martello

That's not a fit analogy, it's more like their is a annual meting that only X number of people attend every time, but the meting is deciding something that affects Bob and he wasn't informed the thing that affects him was going to be on the agenda on the meting, so he didn't come.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:10:00 AM by LMage

Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#747: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:10:04 AM

[up][up][up]I don't know, but it's not the first time it becomes a problem.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:10:15 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#748: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:10:06 AM

@mart

Or you know they could just have a life off Tv Tropes and still care for the site but maybe care more for the college they paid to take classes in, or their family, work, friends, writing, school, ectra.

But no let's just cater to the people who don't have anything better to do than browse the fora all day.

edited 15th Apr '12 11:12:54 AM by Vyctorian

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009
A pocketful of saudade.
#749: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:11:34 AM

More of a pragmatic decision, really, which I support, too, rather pragmatically. In principle the people should be informed, but if we allow for that, it's just going to derail everything.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#750: Apr 15th 2012 at 11:11:56 AM

@Martello: that's either a bad analogy or a good one.

@shimaspawn and Septimus Heap: You're dividing people into two groups: people who care about every change and people who don't care about changes at all. This overlooks the people who aren't interested in most changes but might have an opinion on the massive, unexpected, changes.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

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