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Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#701: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:38:01 AM

If someone added a point containing objectiv wrong information, e.g a sample of text which is not in the work, a fake image or whatever just call a mod and ask them to remove this item.

LMage Since: May, 2011
#702: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:38:05 AM

@Arc

That's easy in theory, hard in practice.

And it's also another reason why the council should be either larger, or their should be multiple ones

Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#703: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:38:33 AM

@699: What about people who aren't trolls, just wrong and stubborn? And that would also take a long time.

Edit @701: Not all this stuff is objective. People posting unrepresentative images and quotes out of context would be much harder to deal with. And allowing people to petition mods to remove info they don't like is going to cause more problems than it causes. I still have not heard any reason why holding a vote to determine which points deserve to go to the council is a problem in any way.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:42:35 AM by Chimaera

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#704: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:40:02 AM

Why should five minutes of calling a mod take more time than days of voting?

ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#705: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:40:14 AM

Septimus, the reason we're talking about trolls is that they're responsible for lying about Lolita to FE, putting FSN on the Hentai index, spamming the cutlist, and other blatant misrepresentation.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#707: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:40:49 AM

They could add blatantly false info, and there'd be no easy way to distinguish them from normal info.

Yep, that is a big concern of mine. Blatantly false, exaggerated, or out of context information put out by trolls, over zealous Moral Guardians, and members of a work or genre's Hate Dumb being used to condemn a work, and things getting cut because no one on the committee knew any better.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:41:22 AM by Catbert

LMage Since: May, 2011
#708: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:42:00 AM

Not all trolls are readily and clearly apparent as trolls and as has been pointed out some people are stubborn but wrong.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#709: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:42:29 AM

One of the current proposed set ups. All three of these would be implemented together. Bullets are just to keep thoughts separate.

  1. A forum where the committee could work that's visible to everyone but can only be posted in by mods and committe members, sort of like Edit Banned.
  2. Separate threads for each work so that we're not constantly derailing one long thread. That turns into a mess and a lot of things get lost in the shuffle.
  3. A separate thread where people not on the committee can post coherent arguments to be posted for or against works that are under discussion. One argument per work per person. This encourages people to be thoughtful and get all their points across in one go. Also, the fact that the mods would be moving the posts into the proper discussions would help make sure that people weren't just disrupting the council with insults.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:45:03 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#710: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:43:14 AM

[up]Prefer number 2#. Would need a separate subforum. 1# needs Imput Details and 3# seems to be asking for under information (as well as still being confusing)

edited 15th Apr '12 10:48:14 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
That One Guy
#711: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:43:32 AM

If people take offense to something being cut, they can appeal and prove that the work is not just porn or does not have graphic kiddy diddling.

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#712: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:44:13 AM

[up][up] All three of those points are the same proposal.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#713: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:44:58 AM

This post has been thumped by my own stupidity.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:45:29 AM by Chimaera

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
LMage Since: May, 2011
#714: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:45:19 AM

@Fire

Every cut erodes the power of Theres No Such Thing As Notability, if cuts are constantly being reversed the the comity members will look like fools and the credibility of the site will suffer.

Cutting is something that should NEVER be done lightly.

Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
That One Guy
#715: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:46:19 AM

If there is good evidence that a work includes what Eddie has already said he wants gone, it should be cut. The site's credibility shouldn't be the focus here.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:46:45 AM by Firebert

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lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#716: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:46:49 AM

Adding things for cutting prematurely will not be allowed. Some people decided to abuse the cutlist yesterday, and I warned you not to do it again.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#717: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:47:27 AM

@710 You contradicted yourself there.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#718: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:47:31 AM

[up][up]Looks like there are some more people to warn, then.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:47:46 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
shimaspawn MOD from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#719: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:47:57 AM

Do NOT keep cutlisting random works. Wait until the committee is done. Continuing to do so is disruptive, unhelpful, and will result in bannings. Too many people are cutlisting things under too many self assumed standards right now to make anything other than a mess. Knock it off.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#720: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:48:13 AM

@714: I wouldn't allow the general populace to reverse a cut, but they ought to be able to send it back for reexamination if they can come up with a new argument that is persuasive and wasn't heard in the cutting discussion. This will allow us to not be constantly reversing, but also go quickly without making sure every last fan knows about the cut beforehand.

edited 15th Apr '12 10:49:18 AM by Chimaera

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
LMage Since: May, 2011
#721: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:50:58 AM

@Fire

If the site's credibility weren't the issue we wouldn't be here.

@Lu

I'm still concerned that cutting will become something to lightly done and it will hurt the site.

@Shim

Has a notice been put in the headlines yet? Letting people know action is underway might help with getting people to calm down

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#722: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:52:18 AM

Headlining this is always dangerous, but I don't expect shimaspawn's post here to suffice on its own - other than actually shutting down the cutlist temporarily.

Also, why aren't the Cut Masters informed?

edited 15th Apr '12 10:52:47 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LMage Since: May, 2011
#723: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:53:37 AM

@Sept

At this point it's doing more harm then good to not put this in the headlines.

ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#724: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:54:31 AM

Just suspend the people who are doing it. No need to cripple the cutlist itself.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#725: Apr 15th 2012 at 10:55:17 AM

All of the people making a mess are posting on this thread. Thus this thread is where it needs to be announced.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Total posts: 2,191
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