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HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#651: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:24:04 AM

@632: If artistic merit isn't a valid excuse, comedy certainly isn't.

[down]A week is better than three days, it gives both people who can only get to TV Tropes on weekends and people who can't get to TV Tropes on weekends a chance to be heard.

What I'm envisioning is a full-on discussion thread, but instead of the herd of cats making the decision eventually, the committee will make it after a week or so. Is that at all accurate?

edited 15th Apr '12 8:27:44 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#652: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:24:55 AM

I think having at least a week between the proposal of a work to the council and the cutting of the work is good,because it gives eveyone a chance to voice an opinion, and also the council can say, check if the work is in Highlights magazine or in Hustler.

I'm also concerned about works that aren't actually pornographic at all being cut.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#653: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:26:54 AM

[up]The Porn Watch comittee is here to prevent the latter thing.

Also, do we have already an official name for the council? I've been using Porn Watch Comittee so far.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#654: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:28:21 AM

[up]I like "Omniscient Counsel of Vagueness" as long as we're clear it's ironic.

edited 15th Apr '12 8:28:32 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#655: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:40:58 AM

[up]I like that too. It certainly has nothing to do with the fact that I came up with it.

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
aranamor Cutlery War Veteran from Florida Since: Apr, 2011
Cutlery War Veteran
#656: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:44:05 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
T Vtropes is NOT Wikipedia, stop trying to make it that. I'm attacking the darkness!
shimaspawn MOD from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#657: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:46:46 AM

Personal attacks, whether at the mods or other tropers are not allowed. Please keep discussion civil. Do not create new threads when we have dedicated ones on the issue as it stands.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#659: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:49:15 AM

That name sounds too much like a Take That! to me.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#660: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:49:42 AM

I think it's funny.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#661: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:50:46 AM

Have we got any details on the way the council will operate? Has it been decided whether it's discussions will be private or public? Preventing it from actually being an Omniscient Council of Vagueness is more important than the name.

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#662: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:54:42 AM

@Sept: I fail to see the problem here.

Ahem. I speculated in 651 about how the group will operate, based on what I think is necessary to achieve the often competing goals of speed and openness. Would anyone who knows facts care to comment on the accuracy of that?

edited 15th Apr '12 8:54:53 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#663: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:55:54 AM

[up]Oh, it's probably because I usually prefer descriptive terms for things.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheOneWhoTropes Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty from Newton-le-willows, quaint town Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty
#664: Apr 15th 2012 at 8:55:59 AM

We can't call it the Omniscient Council of Vagueness due to Poe's Law. Some troper will take it seriously and complain.

Keeper of The Celestial Flame
DamianYerrick Since: Jan, 2001
#666: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:04:42 AM

Perhaps we can call it the Arbitration Committee. On the other hand, scratch that. How about "Code Authority"?

Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#667: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:05:11 AM

@662: Well, no facts appear to be forthcoming, so I'll instead offer some hopefully-constructive criticism about your idea. The problem with giving every work a full week is that some things, like, say, Legend Of The Overfiend, are obviously going to get tossed out and there's no point in wasting the council's time. Similarly, Lolita is almost certainly going to be restored ASAP. Instead, I'd say the council should take however long they think is necessary, so really sticky ones get their time in court but the obvious ones get decided quickly. If there is a significant number of people who think there ought to be more discussion on a work that was decided quickly, they can bring it back up, but it moves to the back of the line.

Secondly, doing everything in one thread makes me worry about the thread moving so quickly the council can't catch everything. I'd have a public thread and a private thread for each work. The private thread can only be posted in by the council. I don't know if we have the tech to let everyone see it, but if not, we'll make it viewable by all once the discussion is over. Nobody can accuse the council of a conspiracy if their conversations are available for all to see.

Consider these addenda to my previous proposal.

edited 15th Apr '12 9:05:38 AM by Chimaera

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
LMage Since: May, 2011
#668: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:06:13 AM

Normally I advocate for far more wit and humor in the wiki, and as a default argue against stuffyness and dryness for the sake of clarity or conciseness, but in this case I think it would be better for a serious name to be given to the council.

Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#669: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:07:53 AM

I previously supported calling it the Omniscient Council of Vagueness in the hope that it would prevent people from taking it too seriously, but I've changed my mind. Call it the Appropriateness Council or something.

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#670: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:20:38 AM

Every work should get a full hearing. Even Legend Of The Overfiend. Otherwise why bother having the thing? Not that a full hearing can't happen quickly or end with a unanimous decision.

I guess a week isn't necessary if we really don't want tropers who aren't in the committee to be part of the process. I'm just thinking of someone who really can't come on the wiki or in the forums except Saturday and Sunday. Discussion of something starts on Tuesday, three days is Thursday, Saturday comes along and this person feels, not unreasonably, shut out.

edited 15th Apr '12 9:21:20 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#671: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:24:09 AM

[up]This committee is for questionable works. Legend Of The Overfiend is not questionable. Those who would like it to stay are clearly not going to win. Why can't we dismiss it out of hand?

Actually, people being left out isn't really a problem, since in my suggestion, if a significant number of people want a nuked work back, they can send it back to the committee, and it's put at the end of it's priority list. So we can make quick decisions, but repeal them if they're overly hasty.

Here's another idea: before the committee examines a work, we open discussion threads for the next few works. They will have a crowner: "Would you nominate this work for summary deletion?" If and only if that crowner achieves consensus on "yes," the committee may, at it's own discretion, delete the work without giving it more than three days. The above rule about groups of people sending back a rejected work still applies.

I think this can get things done quickly, while offering a chance for supporters of a work to marshal a defense if the work has been misrepresented. Does anyone have any comments or criticisms?

edited 15th Apr '12 9:32:45 AM by Chimaera

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#672: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:28:23 AM

Because people who want any work to be cut will say "it's not questionable, there's no way it can not be cut."

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#673: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:30:34 AM

I can live with a "no porn" rule and cutting things like Legend Of The Overfiend. What bothers me is important works of serious literature being deleted, like Lolita or potentially Death In Venice (though our article on the latter is rather poor) or ecchi works being wrongly labeled as porn.

EDIT PS: Hmm... Actually, looking at The Other Wiki article, it seems like the anime was much, much worse than the manga. Maybe cleaning up the article description would suffice, rather than deleting it.

edited 15th Apr '12 9:37:53 AM by Catbert

Chimaera Doctor Where Since: Aug, 2010
Doctor Where
#674: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:35:05 AM

[up][up]Under the new system I proposed in my edit, this is no longer a problem due to the necessity of achieving consensus. Thanks.

[up] The council will be made up of Tropers Like You, so the deletion of Lolita will almost certainly be reversed.

edited 15th Apr '12 9:36:13 AM by Chimaera

Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#675: Apr 15th 2012 at 9:43:22 AM

Ok, that would answer my objections on that score.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

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