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Would you really try to change yourself just to get into heaven?

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abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#126: Apr 12th 2012 at 5:39:50 PM

But the scenario presented does assume that heaven is presented as an option. If you don't consider that scenario, then you're not following the topic.

edited 12th Apr '12 5:40:15 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
ThatOneGuyNamedX Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127: Apr 12th 2012 at 5:41:40 PM

The option is "Heaven or else", not "Heaven or nothing". Or at least, that's what it should be for the question to be effective to what it was meant to ask.

I'm sure Fuschlatz didn't quite anticipate this :P

edited 12th Apr '12 5:41:57 PM by ThatOneGuyNamedX

juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#128: Apr 13th 2012 at 2:08:34 AM

But the scenario presented does assume that heaven is presented as an option. If you don't consider that scenario, then you're not following the topic.

how's that different from:

the question's purpose is clearly to posit an hypothetical scenario in which you could consider the possibility of both heaven and you getting into it.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
mrsaturn Youkai Serious Since: Jan, 2001
Youkai Serious
#129: Apr 13th 2012 at 9:25:14 AM

Personally, I find the idea of doing good to get into Heaven insulting. The reason I do good is to please the people around me, not gather points for some ultimate reward.

Wether I believe or not is irrelevant. I just want to make other people happier.

They assed first. I am only retaliating in an ass way. -The Dead Man's Life
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#130: Apr 13th 2012 at 9:28:02 AM

I do what I believe to be right. Other people's happiness or otherwise is largely irrelevent, though if they aren't bad people they should be happy to see that the right thing has been done.

My fate in the Hereafter doesn't really come in to it. What's right is right and is not changed by threat or reward.

edited 13th Apr '12 9:29:57 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#131: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:16:50 PM

[up]x3 If it's a hypothetical situation where you accept that there's a heaven, why would you ask "What if the hypothetical situation doesn't have heaven"? You're not talking about the same thing.

Now using Trivialis handle.
ThatOneGuyNamedX Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:22:14 PM

Oh, hey, this thread is still going? Wow. I'll say this: For the internet, I'm kind of surprised this hasn't turned into a shit flinging fest. Like any time you mention religion anywhere else in the internet. Give yourselves an applause, tropers.

juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#133: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:26:54 PM

x3 If it's a hypothetical situation where you accept that there's a heaven, why would you ask "What if the hypothetical situation doesn't have heaven"? You're not talking about the same thing.

but I am. My whole point is that you can't simply neglect the hypothetical scenario in order to just answer with some wanky misotheist shit of your own fancy because it misses the spirit of the very question that is being posited.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#134: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:28:46 PM

I don't get what you're saying.

You said, "The question simply doesn't work if there isn't a heaven in the hypothetical scnario it's positing."

But the hypothetical situation does establish that there is a heaven available as an option.

So if you're not interested in that question, why would you answer?

Now using Trivialis handle.
juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#135: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:34:06 PM

What I'm saying is that the question does not work if there's no heaven in the scenario it's positing. Moving that to affirmative and without the abuse of double negatives (For hilarious fun, mind you), that'd be "The question works if there's a heaven in the scenario it's positing"

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#136: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:35:45 PM

But there is. That's why it's hypothetical - it's independent of whether you actually agree with that or not.

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juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#137: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:38:08 PM

Wait, no, misread.

"There is" what?

edited 13th Apr '12 1:38:40 PM by juancarlos

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#138: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:38:58 PM

"It doesn't, really. You can easily answer a question about what you'd do in an scenario you find unlikely or even an scenario that you find to be impossible. For example: "What would you do if you could fly?" "

Then, as I've said, you don't have reason to post here.

[up]"But there is a heaven in the hypothetical situation."

edited 13th Apr '12 1:39:47 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#139: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:41:40 PM

Then, as I've said, you don't have reason to post here.

That's senseless. Just because you don't believe in heaven, it doesn't mean you can't answer a question about what'd you do if you knew for a fact that it existed. It's not unfeasible to predict your own behaviour in certain scenarios, after all, you've observed yourself for years, no?

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#140: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:42:46 PM

Then why "won't it work?"

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juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#141: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:48:48 PM

It doesn't work if there's no heaven in the scenario that it's positing. I don't understand what is difficult to understand about this...?

If you're answering an hypothetical question about "What you'd do if you knew that heaven existed?" then you can't simply cop out and say that heaven doesn't exist in this scenario because (you believe) it doesn't exist in real life.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#142: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:50:25 PM

See, that's what I find contradictory.

"If there is a heaven, would you?" That means the scenario does assume there is a heaven.

And yet you're asking "What if there is no heaven in that scenario?" But in this scenario there is.

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Exelixi Lesbarian from Alchemist's workshop Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
#143: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:54:45 PM

You two, stop. . . Doing the thing you're doing.

Juan is saying the scenario assumes that there is a heaven, so, in answering the question, people should go with that assumption.

You're saying the same goddamn thing.

Kay?

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#144: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:54:59 PM

I'm not asking if there is or there isn't a heaven in the scenario. I'm saying that there is a heaven involved in this scenario and acting as if there isn't (IE: Those posts early on that were along the lines of "lol heaven") simply is contradictory to the core idea of the question.

^butbutbut logic and stuff. besides, it's more interesting than another hour of "God doesn't exist, so no i wouldn't change :)"

edited 13th Apr '12 1:55:51 PM by juancarlos

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#145: Apr 13th 2012 at 1:57:20 PM

So you are saying the same thing, as [up][up] pointed out. I don't see why it wouldn't work, then.

Now using Trivialis handle.
NLK Mo A Since: May, 2010
#146: Apr 13th 2012 at 3:14:10 PM

Well, of all the things this thread could've devolved into, I'll take semantic discussion over religious shit-flinging.

Likes many underrated webcomics
LightArrow Since: Feb, 2012
#147: Apr 13th 2012 at 3:27:39 PM

delete this post

edited 13th Apr '12 3:29:30 PM by LightArrow

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