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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

Jhimmibhob from Where the tea is sweet, and the cornbread ain't Relationship Status: My own grandpa
Feb 3rd 2014 at 12:58:54 PM

What are your legal grounds for saying same-sex couples shouldn't be a protected class?

I haven't offered any opinion about "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts." However, they usually aren't. (They might be in the U.K., but your assertion wasn't nation-specific.)

Discriminating against peoples sex is a legally protected category in most western countries.
And even so, adoption agencies are still allowed to discriminate to a large extent. Even in nations with long histories of sex-discrimination safeguards, single women may be discriminated against—all other things being equal—in favor of married couples.

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones
Feb 3rd 2014 at 1:05:13 PM

Sinlge women aren't discriminated for their lacking penis but for their lacking partner.

DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
Feb 3rd 2014 at 1:15:44 PM

No one here said there should be absolutely no standards for who can adopt children.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Gabrael from My musings Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Feb 3rd 2014 at 2:24:27 PM

[up][up] Which is just a different kind of discrimination.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Feb 3rd 2014 at 3:08:28 PM

The difference being that having only one parent has arguably a measurable negative effect on a child and it is something changeable. You're pretty much set with your sex (baring surgery) and your sexuality but you can get a partner.

Feb 3rd 2014 at 3:16:01 PM

Antiteilchen, so you would agree that a couple is a better situation for the kid then a single parent?

Wildcard from Revolution City Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
Feb 3rd 2014 at 3:28:18 PM

[up]Well that other troper can answer but I have my own.

Depends on the situation. But it often is better for a child to have more than one person who loves and supports them emotionally and financially.

The idea that they need to be one man and one woman is an absurd throwback though.

edited 3rd Feb '14 3:28:46 PM by Wildcard

METAL GEAR!?
Feb 3rd 2014 at 3:32:19 PM

Yes, usually. A couple has simply more time to dedicate to the children than a single parent could. Unless the person belongs to the Idle Rich. And if a child has trouble with one parent, there's still another one.

Of course this leads to three parents being better than two and so on.tongue

Gabrael from My musings Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Feb 3rd 2014 at 4:04:41 PM

I find it interesting as a single parent already I am forbidden to adopt even if I pass all the background checks, insurance requirements, income caps, and home inspections.

But I can have all the biological children I want regardless.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Feb 3rd 2014 at 4:37:14 PM

I'm not sure that three are better then two. However, if it can be shown that a configuration is as bad as being a single parent then it should probably be given lower priority then a couple in adopting?

Feb 3rd 2014 at 5:09:27 PM

A relevant study[1]

Overall, research to date considerably challenges the point of view that same-sex parented families are harmful to children. Children in such families do as well emotionally, socially and educationally as their peers from heterosexual couple families.

[up]Three might still work. It could be that more parents would lead to diffusion of responsibility though.

I find it interesting as a single parent already I am forbidden to adopt even if I pass all the background checks, insurance requirements, income caps, and home inspections.

But I can have all the biological children I want regardless.

If a single person passes all the tests and has enough time to raise a child alone I see no problem letting them adopt. The part about the biological children is true for various people bared from adopting though. Poor people can conceive children as can drug addicts as can people with no sense of responsibility.

Maybe all people should make a test to get a parenting license first.tongue

edited 3rd Feb '14 5:09:45 PM by Antiteilchen

Gabrael from My musings Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Feb 3rd 2014 at 5:10:48 PM

Being a single parent isn't bad. Being a poor parent regardless of the number is bad.

Hell, the current president was raised by a single parent.

What I find amusing is the same religious nuts who tell me being bisexual is the devil's work say how I am following gods will by not having an abortion.

They rather kids rot in orphanages then give them to willing and capable parents just because of the chromosome match. Doesn't sound like a religion of love to me.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Wildcard from Revolution City Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
Feb 3rd 2014 at 5:18:00 PM

I'm not sure that three are better then two. However, if it can be shown that a configuration is as bad as being a single parent then it should probably be given lower priority then a couple in adopting?

Well first you have to show that being a single parent is bad.

METAL GEAR!?
Jhimmibhob from Where the tea is sweet, and the cornbread ain't Relationship Status: My own grandpa
Feb 3rd 2014 at 6:17:46 PM

Good, bad, or indifferent, there's ample precedent for giving adoption agencies large amounts of discretion when they choose between/among candidates, when they rule out others, and when they make judgment calls about what, precisely, constitutes "the best interests of the child." As we've seen, using this discretion has often been consistent with government support and designated charitable-institution status—even when exercised in a way that clashes with legal discrimination restrictions on direct government actors.

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
Feb 4th 2014 at 9:58:56 AM

Being a single parent isn't bad. Being a poor parent regardless of the number is bad.

That's pretty much it.

[up][up] There are numerous studies on how children of single parents tend to be worse off on average. There's something to be said on how a divorce or events leading up to one will mess with a kid's idea of marriage in the long run, but for the most part it's rather obviously a pragmatic matter of time and money.

As they say, money is no object until you don't have it.

edited 4th Feb '14 10:07:52 AM by Pykrete

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
Feb 5th 2014 at 3:48:00 PM

[up] That ... went much better than I expected it to. smile

Thatís the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Feb 5th 2014 at 4:14:47 PM

I've seen worse.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
Feb 5th 2014 at 7:47:39 PM

[up] Nice to see thats all you could take from that.

I'm baaaaaaack
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Feb 5th 2014 at 7:57:22 PM

It came off as rather self centred to me and very much like he was putting all the blame on the LGBT people for not getting along with him.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Feb 5th 2014 at 8:02:53 PM

\*gay people and Christians. It's about both sides.

majoraoftime Immanentizing the eschaton from UTC -3:00
Immanentizing the eschaton
Feb 5th 2014 at 8:07:43 PM

Well, those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, either...

Feb 5th 2014 at 8:09:11 PM

True. I'm bi and Christian.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Feb 5th 2014 at 8:17:27 PM

Yeah, I think that part of it, the assumption that gay people need Jesus and are some other than Christian was probably the bit that irked me the most.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Feb 5th 2014 at 8:35:40 PM

It's a little more complicated than that comic presents it. I don't think all Christians are out of touch with reality, for one thing. Just the ones who tell me I need Jesus. I tried Jesus out. Didn't care much for it.

I'm reminded of another comic strip that took a brief look at the conflict between the LGBT community and Christianity. The comic, Something Positive, is NSFW, so I don't think I can link it. In this particular plotline, an older gentleman stands up to a group of outspoken Christians who claim (among other things) that homosexuality is a "deluded choice", earning him the admiration of a young gay couple. Later, he hears them complaining about Christians in general and is offended, pointing out that it's not fair to judge an entire group based on their "vocal minority". He has a point. One of the gay kids is quite shocked when he reveals himself to be Christian...because he isn't putting them down, which until then had been the extent of their experience with Christianity.

edited 5th Feb '14 8:37:41 PM by Morgikit


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