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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 12th 2013 at 7:38:03 AM

It's my understanding that Christians in general are cool with non-reproductive sex in a committed relationship. As least if it's a committed heterosexual/heteroromantic relationship. Some don't seem to believe gays are capable of committing. I once came across a Christian who claimed that consexual gay sex was the same as heterosexual rape. I guess his argument was that both are sins according to the bible, but who the hell says that?

Nov 12th 2013 at 7:46:51 AM

Yes, Christians in general are indeed cool with non-reproductive sex within a committed relationship.

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC
Nov 12th 2013 at 7:48:31 AM

[up][up]Well some denominations don't actually teach a difference between "degrees" of sin. I cannot speak to the commonality of it because I am only familiar with Catholicism but the idea of all sin being equally repugnant before God is not new or unique.

I do find it silly that murder falls into the same category as homosexuality but form a purely theological standpoin, some people would in fact say that.

Nov 12th 2013 at 8:13:26 AM

All sin separates us from God equally. Separation from God is Binary. You are or you are not.

Not all sin has the same temporal effects. Some things are more harmful to yourselves and others then other things.

edited 12th Nov '13 8:14:23 AM by Soban

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:17:24 AM

And some "sins" statistically speaking don't cause any more measurable harm than things that are not considered "sins". Misguided or malevolent attempts to stop said "sins" from happening do cause harm.

edited 12th Nov '13 8:18:59 AM by Morgikit

Nov 12th 2013 at 8:27:20 AM

Almost everything that hurts other people breaks one of the two rules that everything can be boiled down to. Love others as you love yourself.

Nov 12th 2013 at 8:36:18 AM

@Soban: Do you know if prostitutes are considered to be part of the body of Christ or not? The verse implies they're not. Which would be an abhorrent statement. Especially considering how many prostitutes are not in the profession voluntarily. sad

Elfive not sure this one's actually a skull, but w/e from London
not sure this one's actually a skull, but w/e
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:36:27 AM

Does that mean it would be morally wrong for me to not give other guys handjobs?

I stopped worrying about strange men on the internet around the time I became one.
Madrugada MOD Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:37:13 AM

If "having false-to-fact statements called out as false-to-act" makes OTC Unwelcoming, then, -> There's the door.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:39:00 AM

[up][up][up] The Body of Christ thing is referring specifically to the Church. (The first century version). The prostitute was rather unlikely to be a Christian. Yeah, it's bad, but it's like saying that my cousin isn't a Canadian. Because he isn't. There is a prerequisite that needs to be fulfilled first.

edited 12th Nov '13 8:40:11 AM by Zendervai

Nov 12th 2013 at 8:39:40 AM

@Fighteer, as one of the "religious bigots the nation over crowded into their restaurants to eat crappy fast food" I love being called a Bigot, thank you. I think you are 100% wrong about what you said. The kiss in that was overtaken was because the CEO in a personal interview upon being asked about what he personally thought about homosexuality. He said that it's a sin. If that's bigoted, then so be it. However, don't confuse his personal thoughts with company policy.

@Antiteilchen, What Zen said.

edited 12th Nov '13 8:44:31 AM by Soban

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:40:05 AM

All sin separates us from God equally. Separation from God is Binary. You are or you are not.

According to the suppositions of your brand of Christianity, yes. But not according to all.

Almost everything that hurts other people breaks one of the two rules that everything can be boiled down to. Love others as you love yourself.

Does refusing someone service a couple based on them being the same gender not hurt them? What about preventing them form being able to stand beside a partner in the hospital? Baring them from engaging adoption? I would argue a large degree of measurable harm is done by denying them legal benefits that come with marriage, for example.

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:41:30 AM

Well, I love my partners, but you (and other Christians who are opposed to non-heterosexuality) would have me end my relationship with them. I consider that to be harmful.

Nov 12th 2013 at 8:43:44 AM

Just because the kid considers a spanking harmful, does not mean it is.

Nov 12th 2013 at 8:48:08 AM

[up]As someone who's opposed to any form of corporeal punishments I'd disagree with you there. There's a reason laws in the developed world got rid of them. It's a huge disregard of the bodily integrity of the children and teaches a might makes right attitude.

edited 12th Nov '13 4:10:29 PM by Antiteilchen

Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:48:28 AM

EDIT: Nevermind.

"Love others as you love yourself, and Love others as I (Jesus) have loved you."

If someone is truly happy in a relationship, regardless of the circumstances, forcing them to break it up is a grand example of breaking those commandments.

edited 12th Nov '13 8:50:37 AM by Zendervai

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:52:12 AM

Soban: Abusers never consider what they do to be abuse either.

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:53:16 AM

Well ignoring for a moment the monumental degree of arrogance it takes to consider consenting adults to be be children in need of a spanking, the spanking by definition causes harm. It is designed to hurt and humiliate.

It's only virtue would be that the spanking served to deter a greater degree of harm than withholding the spanking would. The idea being the pain and humiliation would serve as a deterrent to something even worse.

In which case I would challenge you to show me any evidence that Christianities overall treatment of the LGBT community has done more good than harm. Cause I can point to the extreme degree of social ostracization, depression and suicides gay teens go through. I can point to the immense damage church funded anti-LGBT sentiment has caused, in some cases inciting outright violence, for the record.

Now if all sin is binary, and any sin separates you from God as you claim, if Christianity overall actions are not encouraging reconciliation with God but instead encouraging other sins (suicide, aetheism, a turn to "heathen" beliefs) then can they claim to not be doing harm? Can they claim to be doing good?

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 12th 2013 at 8:55:36 AM

Opponents would argue that those things are on us, because our love is so obviously evil, I'm sure.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
Nov 12th 2013 at 9:07:22 AM

If that's true, explain Divorce.

That foregone decision winds up being an idiotic one they deeply regret once the hormones wear off and they realize they can't stand each other in all the moments that don't involve genitals.

I lived in a fraternity. That played out verbatim just about every month.

edited 12th Nov '13 9:07:47 AM by Pykrete

Nov 12th 2013 at 11:35:24 AM

And the separation from god would be self-inlifcted harm too boot. So inflicting harm they don't want so they don't get "harm" they want? Patronizing much? Not everyone beliefs in gods and hence the separation doesn't even exist to them. It's a rather subjective "harm". It's like "saving" a masochist from enjoying pain.

If another religion recognizes same-sex relationships and you forbid it to them, you're also infringing on their religious freedom. Why should christianity or specific brands of christianity have a say in what is and what isn't a proper relationship?

Nov 12th 2013 at 11:44:09 AM

The same reason that you or anyone else has a say in it.

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 12th 2013 at 11:46:34 AM

Soban: I have a say in my relationship because it's mine. You don't.

Nov 12th 2013 at 11:56:40 AM

Family structure has a significant impact on society as a whole. As such, it is in society's interest to make sure that Family structure is solid. (However, you define a solid family structure.)

We disagree about what makes up a solid family structure. I honestly do not believe that a Female/Female (or Male/Male family structure) can on average raise a kid as well as a Male/Female family structure. I have no doubt that the best of a Male/Male family structure can beat out the worse of a Male/Female family structure. However, that's not comparing apples to apples now is it?

edited 12th Nov '13 11:56:54 AM by Soban

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
Nov 12th 2013 at 11:58:58 AM

I honestly do not believe that a Female/Female (or Male/Male family structure) can on average raise a kid as well as a Male/Female family structure.

Back that up.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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