Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in this thread.
Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.
Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.
Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:52:14 PM
I.....find it difficult to bring myself to believe that these people aren't simply blinded by righteous dogma. That if they read about that lady who had people break into her home and mutilate her body, they'd see reason.
(Sigh) Maybe I just don't want to believe American citizens, God-fearing people (allegedly) could care so little about another human being.
It was an honor
Thank you for making me laugh Kay. But this reaffirms my belief that we true Christians have a sworn obligation to stop these people once and for all.
But the question I'd never really thought of till now is....what if they won't change? Won't if they don't surrender?
I mean, if they can't be reasoned with, then truly the only other option is.....complete eradication.
It was an honorNot complete eradication. Just complete eradication of their power. Men like Phelps and the murders who justify themselves with "they were gay" don't deserve power, authority, or having their ideas taken seriously by anyone. If we can convince enough people that he and his ilk are idiots and evil than and as long as we take adequate measures to protect ourselves then they will just be a bunch of idiots shouting at the air only to be faced with "Nothing to see here move along".
Starship I'd like to believe they were just blinded by Dogma and on some level they are sorry for what they've done. But given how they've justified themselves to the press I can't believe it. It is a horrifying thought that people can be monsters. It seems that way though.
To quote Christopher Hitchens (as I am wont to do): "People like that should be out in the street shouting and hollering, with a carboard sign and selling pencils from a cup."
That the position I would like to see Phelps and the homophobic churches reduced to in US society.
Schild und Schwert der ParteiOn a different note how do we stop with the needless metaphor censorship? While things like the Legacy Virus X-men Storyline and the TNG episode The Outcast are well intentioned the run the risk of being lost in metaphor or the far worse option of making it look like you support the opposite side. In TNG it seemed more like it was One woman's struggle to bone a man in the face of lesbian zealots, (would say the real line but I'm not sure how okay you all are with the vulgarity of Cracked.com).
edited 11th Mar '13 3:11:00 PM by Wildcard
One idea put forward by David Brin (yeah, he's a sci-fi author. But he's also a Real Life scientist, and he has a lot of ideas I personally find interesting), and that I found quite convincing, is that WBC and similar phenomena are better understood if one considers them instances of addiction.
Just as one can become addicted to various substances, or to gambling, one can also become addicted to righteous indignation — to the feeling that you are pure and in the right and everyone else is a filthy, evil, morally corrupted wretch. That feels good, and it is self-reinforcing: the more you see reality in that way, the more reasons you will find to keep seeing it in that way, and the better it will feel for you to be the only bastion of righteousness in a sea of awful semi-humans.
Perhaps, by now, Phelps and the others like him have no more control on their behaviour than a last-stage alcoholic or a gambling addict do. They got caught up, perhaps beyond their capabilities of even noticing that, in their cycle of self-satisfied denouncing of the evil of the rest of the world, and in the thrill that they get out of it.
edited 11th Mar '13 3:19:32 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.Look, the Phelpses and the WBC are horrible people who say horrible things. But they have never physically harmed a human being for being gay.
I'll take a million Fred Phelpses over one Adolf Hitler.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.I'll take a million Fred Phelpses over one Adolf Hitler.
Hitler exploited the elements of antisemitism that were already present in Europe at the time — and of whose existence, as an aside, the Catholic Church is not innocent. Doubtlessly many of the people who contributed to spread such abhorrent ideas did not physically harm a human being for being Jewish, and perhaps many of them would never have done that even if they had been given the opportunity; but still, they contributed to setting up the justification for Hitler's actions.
Similarly, even in Phelphs never physically hurt people for being gay, he certainly contributes to a cultural environment in which people harassing and hurting people for their sexuality is permissible.
I think I forgot one "got", it should be OK now. I think.
edited 11th Mar '13 3:28:47 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.Maybe we can have more gay representation in the media if authors make main characters be gay, but don't make their whole role in the show revolve around it. Why can't the best pilot in the galaxy also be gay? Though authors should follow the rule of don't have your character defined by a single trait in general this seems to be a big problem with what examples we do have.
I'm familiar with the Honor Harrington books, so I know of David Brin. The idea of religious zealotry as an addiction is a rather intriguing idea. Any further data on the subject.
Re: Phelps vs. Hitler - Completely agreed with Pagad. One could say Hitler didn't phyisically gun down 6 million people either.
We are all responsible for our sins of commission and omission. While Phelps's crimes and Hitler's aren't remotely comparable, it is also impossible to absolve him of his contributions to the misery gays suffer in this country.
It was an honor

The horror is unimaginable, but this quotation from Hugh Trevor-Roper sums it up:
edited 11th Mar '13 2:20:05 PM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei