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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:52:14 PM

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#9101: Feb 23rd 2013 at 8:56:02 AM

I spent many years, my whole childhood in fact, on that road. I know where it leads.

Christianity. A truly horrific fate. Make sure your child has it better than you. >:P

shimaspawn MOD from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#9102: Feb 23rd 2013 at 9:06:00 AM

@ Polar, Starship: I know you two don't get along, but I ask that you not make any personal attacks at each other. Please keep things on the arguments and not on the people making them. I know you're both frustrated, but comments like "Just ignore so and so s/he's 'insert insult here'" are not appropriate for this forum. I don't want to have to start handing out thumps and time outs.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#9103: Feb 23rd 2013 at 9:17:09 AM

However this doesn't mean "what you're doing is wrong" is synonymous with "you should hate yourself".-Starship

I'm sorry to say this and this is no insult to hypothetical child's intelligence but a lot of us have personal experience with something like that. Maybe you do as well. A child and sometimes teenagers even don't think that way. At least a lot of us think they won't see the difference even if you try to teach them.

I have no clue as to your parenting, maybe you would be better at teaching the child the difference between such a thing. When I was a kid I sometimes made the unfortunate leap from "this is a bad thing I shouldn't do it" to "The person doing it is bad".

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#9104: Feb 23rd 2013 at 9:36:08 AM

@Card - As did I. But....I can see where it all began; now. Not then.

I remember during a Church service when I was a boy, I was impatient because the Giants were playing the Jets, a rare occurrence, and I wanted to see it. We had a guest pastor and his sermons ran particularly long. I was getting impatient, cause I was going to miss the game.

The Pastor neared what I thought was the end of the sermon, but then turned around and started down another part of the lesson. I groaned out loud; loud enough for the people sitting next to us to hear it.

I got beat senseless that day. But that wasn't the bad part; I'd gotten beat before so at that point, the pain was whatever. It's what was said after. The long and short of it was that I was possessed by the devil and that football was the particular idol I was worshiping. I remember my mother actually cried and said she couldn't understand why God gave her such an awful son.

So....at least in my case, it wasn't a matter of misunderstanding my parents statements, it was a matter of their statements were fucked up. I think a common issue across all families is that we assume because we know our own motives, because we know our own intent, others can read the same. Even on these threads, people think because they know what they mean, everyone else does.

The Bible is so clear that you MUST watch what you say. We are not telepaths. If you say to your child "You're wrong." and fail to say "So's everyone else including me. God loves you the same. As do I," then yes, of course your child won't know that.

Christianity. A truly horrific fate. Make sure your child has it better than you. >:P

They will.

It was an honor
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#9105: Feb 23rd 2013 at 9:53:42 AM

Wow...I didn't know. I'm very sorry that happened to you. Even if I don't agree with your methods I can be certain you'd be a better parent than that. Do you know any parents who forbid homosexuality and are good about it? I assume your at an age where you know a few parents, (I'm not).

Does your church except gay people Ship?

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#9106: Feb 23rd 2013 at 10:27:03 AM

Do you know any parents who forbid homosexuality and are good about it?

I don't. But then my knowledge of gays and their parents is limited to begin with.

Does your church except gay people Ship?

I rotate between four churches and none of them have any policy on anyone's orientation. One explicitly states on their website that they accept gays.

It was an honor
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#9107: Feb 23rd 2013 at 10:40:36 AM

Have you ever thought of asking the priest at the church that accepts gays if he thinks homosexual acts are a sin? Maybe having a spiritual advisor talk to you might work better than us since a number of us aren't Christian.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#9108: Feb 23rd 2013 at 10:52:05 AM

Who cares. After all, sexual repression and conflicted sexuality never hurt anyone-

"No pregnant women...should walk in my funeral or ever visit my grave. No woman should ask forgiveness of me. Those who will wash my body should wear gloves so that they do not touch my genitals." - Mohammed Atta, 9/11 hijacker.

Oh wait...

edited 23rd Feb '13 10:52:26 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#9109: Feb 23rd 2013 at 11:31:45 AM

When I was a kid I sometimes made the unfortunate leap from "this is a bad thing I shouldn't do it" to "The person doing it is bad". - Wildcard
This doesn't surprise me. It seems to be a very human leap, that "If X is bad, therefore anyone who does X is bad," which might be true in rare cases like murder or rape, but even then is possible to have exceptions.

I have an example/argument with the whole conversion therapy, but as I have to leave the house now, I will type it up later.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#9110: Feb 23rd 2013 at 11:36:47 AM

[up] You tease! tongue

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#9111: Feb 23rd 2013 at 11:48:03 AM

The entire point of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is that where we are weak, he's strong. It's precisely because he's sexual behavior is a choice; not his orientation, that he doesn't have to feel he's simply "wrong" and there's nothing he can do about it.

So, you're going to make your child watch all his or her other siblings have relationships, while they sit lonely and wait longing for a time out from under your thumb?

THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'LL COME BACK TO BITE YOU AT ALL.

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#9112: Feb 23rd 2013 at 12:31:39 PM

Wait...who says there's nothing a gay child can do about their situation? We're saying nothing needs to be done.

Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#9113: Feb 23rd 2013 at 12:58:50 PM

[up]

I'm saying, it's bad to have to force your child to lie to you in order to date. It's especially bad if they need relationship advice, or help.

Or is that what you're saying?

Noirceur Ally of Justice Since: Jan, 2012
Ally of Justice
#9114: Feb 23rd 2013 at 1:40:43 PM

I have an example/argument with the whole conversion therapy, but as I have to leave the house now, I will type it up later.

Great, so I will have to read more of this stupid argument!

edited 23rd Feb '13 1:41:07 PM by Noirceur

Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#9115: Feb 23rd 2013 at 1:46:32 PM

[up]We can have more than one discussion about this topic.

Noirceur Ally of Justice Since: Jan, 2012
Ally of Justice
#9116: Feb 23rd 2013 at 1:56:45 PM

Taking this dicussion seriously became impossible for me after the words "conversion therapy" were uttered.

edited 23rd Feb '13 2:07:10 PM by Noirceur

Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#9117: Feb 23rd 2013 at 2:25:23 PM

Okay, then don't participate. You can start another topic in this thread if you like.

edited 23rd Feb '13 2:25:36 PM by Wildcard

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#9118: Feb 23rd 2013 at 2:32:24 PM

@Matues: I was responding to the quote from Max. I get why he might see homosexuality as a curse, but we don't.

edited 23rd Feb '13 2:52:03 PM by Morgikit

Noirceur Ally of Justice Since: Jan, 2012
Ally of Justice
#9119: Feb 23rd 2013 at 2:33:57 PM

I was waiting for an excuse to post this!

Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself.
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#9120: Feb 23rd 2013 at 3:04:40 PM

[up]I thought he was joking about the celibacy thing. Sounds like kind of a Stepford Smiler.

Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#9121: Feb 23rd 2013 at 3:09:30 PM

But if he doesn't have a family how can he have a population to rule over on his own planet after the rapture? Guess he gets to be part of his parent's planet.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#9122: Feb 23rd 2013 at 3:57:38 PM

You tease! tongue - DG
Hey, I didn't want to be late for the sneak preview! (And I nearly was)

so I will have to read more of this stupid argument! - Noirceur
I'm guessing you haven't read enough of the thread to realize I'm not Maxima's backup. Well, not most of the time.

he might see homosexuality as a curse, but we don't. - Morgikit
I certainly don't; I want to reframe that particular argument to see if it still makes sense when compared to something else that Max can (hopefully) agree is non-sinful.

OK, so here goes. I'm basing at least part of my thinking on watching a couple of those lovely one-minute-physics style videos; specifically one on how watching pornography will adjust your brain chemistry and neuroplasty.*

So, let's take Bob. Bob has a really strong foot fetish, Not That There's Anything Wrong with That. Bob decides, on his own, to try and find a psychiatrist who can help him 'convert' his mind to a more mainstream sexuality; not because there's something wrong with his attraction, but between a lack of partners sharing the same interest and well-meaning but clueless friends/relatives, Bob has decided he doesn't want to deal with the hassles involved of being of a minority sexuality. (edit) The psychiatrist then helps Bob work through thought exercises and mental conditioning so that his sexuality isn't tied up in his partner's feet, no matter how delectable they might be.

If I'm understanding him correctly, the above paragraph is Maxima's argument in favor of conversion therapy. Now there's a big difference in being homosexual and having a foot fetish, not least of which is that the Holy Bible doesn't condemn people who want to get foot-jobs*

. tongue Now, as far as I know, situations like the above already happen, but I have no idea how successful they are nor how often it harms the people seeking it.

edited 23rd Feb '13 3:59:22 PM by BlueNinja0

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#9123: Feb 23rd 2013 at 4:01:49 PM

Does anyone know of any groups that provide this "therapy" for reasons other than "it's wrong"?

[up]I have some weird fetishes, some I'm embarrassed to bring up in the Nunnery. But I don't know if I'd go as far as to get rid of them so I wouldn't feel weird. I especially wouldn't do it just to get laid.

edited 23rd Feb '13 4:11:46 PM by Morgikit

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#9124: Feb 23rd 2013 at 4:10:35 PM

[up] I do not - I was simply trying to rephrase Maxima's argument to something that's not considered a killing offense by ultra-conservative types and see if it still made sense.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Noirceur Ally of Justice Since: Jan, 2012
Ally of Justice
#9125: Feb 23rd 2013 at 4:12:50 PM

[up][up] Well, there is also "it is for your best".

Because clearly those silly gay people don't know how delusional they are!

Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself.

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