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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:52:14 PM

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#6551: Jan 5th 2013 at 7:03:16 PM

You know what, fine. You win. I'm done trying to stand up for myself only to be called stupid and told that I advocate facism or that I need to grow up. I will continue not to support Chik-fil-A, whether my reasons meet with your approval or not. I don't have to justify my reasons to you, and what you think of me doesn't matter.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6552: Jan 5th 2013 at 7:16:49 PM

Whoa, hang on! What the.....??

First off, nobody called you stupid. If they did, please show me the post and I'll personally let them know where to stick it. Second, I'm not saying you advocate facism. I'm saying that we can all fall prey to becoming the very things we oppose. All of us Morgikit. You. Me. Silasw. Shima. Euo. Polar. The President. Dan Cathy. Jeff Bezos. Anybody that's a member of the human race. As such we all have an obligation to be on guard against that.

You can continue to not support CFA, and for the umpteenth time, I acknowledge and support your right to do so. Me personally, they make some pretty decent chicken, so I'll buy from them when I get the opportunity.

As for standing up for yourself: dude, surely you know by now, I'm a FAN of people who say "Y'know what? Fuck what you think." I like that. We need that. History is made by those who don't give a shit what people think about them. I was suckered into being anti-union and anti-gay rights precisely because I didn't have the courage you do back then. I've developed some now and I only seek to encourage that in others.

I don't look down on you. I respect you. And I'm reasonably sure everyone else feels the same way about you.

edited 5th Jan '13 7:17:45 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#6553: Jan 5th 2013 at 7:32:19 PM

[up] I think those two statements were aimed at me. I know it's hard for you to accept but not every strawman in this thread is aimed at you.

Morgikit appears to have misunderstood my statements that there are stupid reasons to boycott something (to clear up any misunderstanding, I do NOT consider the owner being a jackass to be a stupid reason) and that blocking a business from expanding because its owner vocalising a moral opinion that is stupid is legislative morality, as calling her stupid and an advocate of fascism.

Also don't I even get a sympathy laugh for implying that we must be in an alternate universe because you have majority's support for once?[lol]

edited 5th Jan '13 7:41:57 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6554: Jan 5th 2013 at 7:54:42 PM

Well, the truth is Number One, er, Silasw, there have been several times where the majority of this forum has been in my corner.

I didn't make a big deal only because I already expect you guys to have my back.

It was an honor
Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#6555: Jan 5th 2013 at 9:17:52 PM

I don't go to CFA anymore because I don't want my money going to groups that slander and lie and move to legislate against LGBTQWTFBQ.

I'm not sure that counts as a boycott.

If so, then oh well.

The guy should know better than to make politically damaging statements where they can be heard.

That's the price one pays for having publicity.

People care about what you say.

edited 5th Jan '13 9:19:22 PM by Matues

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#6556: Jan 5th 2013 at 10:03:22 PM

As I believe I said at the time, it probably served as a form of advertising.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#6557: Jan 5th 2013 at 10:13:37 PM

[up][up] What would you say to someone who refused to shop at JC Penny or Oreos then?

Did the owner of subway sent profits to a anti-abortion group or did I just Imagine that?

Edit:Okay looked it up, it was Domino's pizza, NOW

boycotted it because of this[1]. They based an early episode of Seinfeld around it [2].

That never bothered me but, just thought the food was awfull.

edited 6th Jan '13 1:25:20 AM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#6558: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:29:07 AM

What would you say to someone who refused to shop at JC Penny or Oreos then?
Not the one you asked, but I'd say there homophobic. Just like I'd say those who boycott CFA are pro-LGBT, only I'd look down on the former because I'm pro-LGBT myself.

Edit: On the other hand, I agree with Ultrayellow's simple terms as long as CFA didn't do anything actually illegal.

edited 6th Jan '13 1:42:16 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#6559: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:47:29 AM

Throws in something totally non-related, but kind of relevant. Ratner: how to almost completely sink your business in three easy steps. 1) Open mouth. 2) Insult your customer base. 3) Admit to shoddy products.

See? You don't need a political agenda. You just need to be a dick. wink But, throwing politics into your business when it has no reason to be there is a good way to look like a prize idiot of a dick. wink

edited 6th Jan '13 5:49:06 AM by Euodiachloris

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6560: Jan 6th 2013 at 8:15:21 AM

But that's the thing, there was no politics involved in his business. Chick-Fil-A has documented gays on its payroll, and no one has yet unearthed any of this alleged evidence that they discriminate against gay customers. In fact several gays who work and eat there say that while they don't agree with Cathy, they aren't treated any different.

As for insulting the customer base...let's look closer at that. Cathy claims to be following the Biblical definition of marriage. So does that mean he insulted unmarried couples that live together? Did he insult people who actively have sex with people they're not married to? What about people that have affairs? Or divorcees?

Or perhaps Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims, Episcopalians, Orthodox Jews, Unorthodox Jews, Messianic Jews, Mormons, should all start a boycott as well because the man is open in supporting the Christian view of marriage?

Ah, but see, it seems only the LGBTQs have special exemption status that the mere utterance of anything not supporting their lifestyle needs to be punished post-haste.

Again, you want to boycott, do you. But I'm asking that we really look closer at this before we all pat ourselves on the back for our "activism". As I asked someone on the Gay Rights in America thread, if you're going to boycott a business for donating to groups you don't like, then what would stop you as an employer from not promoting me Starship at your company even though I'm by far the best employee? I mean after all, you'd just rationlize it with "Well, I don't Starship to take his extra pay and give to the FRC."

Second you have to take the long view. People, CFA employs gays. Many of them. You boycotting hurts them more than Cathy who's already a millionaire. And besides, the best thing you could do is the Chick-Fil-A gay kiss in (God, that was brilliant). Call the company on their bluff. You make your statement AND get some good chicken.

Also, while the media makes a big show of boycotts, we really need to think about what we're boycotting. As I said, if you look closely at every single company, they do something objectionable. Just because they're on your side when it comes to your pet cause doesn't mean they're not doing other shady shit. Believe me, I know firsthand. Your company is gay friendly, but they pay their 3rd-world workers shit, or they don't promote women, or they pollute the environment, or they don't hire blacks, or Latinos, or they duck unions. Every single one.

That's why I think we need to get away from this "Let's boycott!" method and move toward "Let's make sure we're actually making a difference". You keeping your money from Dan Cathy did nothing to hurt CFA's sales and probably gave him a free boost. You think you're going to get rid of the FRC by throwing out the hate group label and trying to keep money from going to them? You won't. People will just give anonymously or not mention it.

You stop them by helping their supporters see the error of their ways. Like you did for me.

It was an honor
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#6561: Jan 6th 2013 at 8:57:16 AM

So Cathy also hates unmarried couples that live together, people who actively have sex with people they're not married to, people that have affairs, Or divorcees, Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims, Episcopalians, Orthodox Jews, Unorthodox Jews, Messianic Jews, Mormons?

That guy is sick in the head!

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6562: Jan 6th 2013 at 8:59:00 AM

[up] Wise ass[lol]tongue.

It was an honor
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#6563: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:02:02 AM

But

Ah, but see, it seems only the LGBT Qs have special exemption status that the mere utterance of anything not supporting their lifestyle needs to be punished post-haste.

This is the Homosexuality and Religion thread. I think it doesn't have anything to do with a special exemption status as much as it just is, you know, on-topic. :V

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6564: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:06:26 AM

[up] I hate you. *

It was an honor
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#6565: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:10:55 AM

Of course you do!

I'm gay!

Badumtish!

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6567: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:14:38 AM

How is homosexuality an alternative lifestyle anyway? It's entirely possible for a gay couple to live in a manner identical to a straight one, except that both members are the same sex.

It's no more an alternative lifestyle than an inter-racial couple is.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6568: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:19:36 AM

[up] In order for that to be true, you have to assume, as some do, that there's no real difference between being a man and being a woman. Some don't buy that.

With that said, it clearly isn't some sort of criminal deviant behavior that some people act like it is.

edited 6th Jan '13 9:26:49 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#6569: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:26:22 AM

Living together with another woman has lots of benefits. Like, you don't have to clean after her, she can actually do housework, has to pee while sitting, knows how the washing machine works, can cook and pays attention to your feelings.

I'm totally not being stereotypical. MALE PIIIIIIGS!

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6570: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:28:19 AM

[up] I got news for you sweetie, I do all that. And I actually know what's going on during a football game to boot.

So hah!

It was an honor
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#6571: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:29:43 AM

I didn't know Starship was a woman!

Also, it's soccer. :3

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#6572: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:31:22 AM

Not in America. Soccer's too slow.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#6573: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:33:19 AM

I didn't know Starship was a woman!

[lol] I swear, someone a hundred years from now is going to read these discussions and will have NO fucking idea what the hell was going on!

To be honest, I've been mocked as being "lady-like" before. But no, I'm all dude, dude.

It was an honor
LMage Since: May, 2011
#6574: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:37:04 AM

See, that's the thing about stereotypical perceptions of gender, while their might be some general truth to it (as with any stereotype really) the fact is that any person can exhibit any type of behavior despite their inborn traits or cultural background. I've known women that could break my hand arm wrestling, and I myself, despite being gayer then Pride Fest in California, have almost no feminine traits.

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#6575: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:39:35 AM

[up]

  • Puts on anthropologist hat.

Persecuted minorities tend to develop an island mentality that encourages things like gay pride events. Its very old - it comes from the need for members of a minority to mutually support one another, the way in which the persecuting authority often forces the members of the minority to live in close proximity, and the need to be loud and proud so as to present a united and intimidating front to potential persecutors. For instance, the response of Jews in European history was not to hide themselves in the society that persecuted them, but to be as obviously, loudly, and obnoxiously (to their tormentors) Jewish as possible. Similarly, African-American culture in the United States stems from the unique cultural experience of African-Americans as slaves and then underclass. The same thing is being created with gay people - although gay people are not persecuted to the same active, malevolent extent as black people or Jews, the obvious camp stereotype serves as a way of signalling that people aren't intimidated or respectful of persecutors.

There is a "gay culture", and a "gay agenda" (of course, the gay agenda is not the bizarre fantasies of conservatives but merely achieving parity with straight people), but these are entirely a creation of homophobia. Put it this way, at most, only 5% of African-Americans now celebrate Kwanzaa, a rather huge plummet from its heyday in The '70s. Why? Because the movement associated with Kwanzaa, black nationalism, is in decline. Why? Because black people are not (as badly) persecuted and made to feel outsiders - there is a black man in the White House etc. The need for a protective, autonomous, minority culture has subsided.

Also, the Church Of England has dropped its opposition to gay bishops, provided they remain celibate - Quoth the BBC.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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