Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in this thread.
Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.
Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.
Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:52:14 PM
You do realize there are tons of Catholic Churches, right? Which means mine would not be for that. I have to read which ones it means. Cause they're not all the actual same. Don't generalize.
Yeah, that's one person saying that, and it's unknown if every single Catholic Church feels the same way. He doesn't speak for every member of the Church either. As I said, don't generalize. I cannot say for certain mine currently holds that same view. If it does, I would stop supporting them. If it's not, depending on all of their views, I would support them or not.
It's not a "one person speaks for all" scenario here. As I said, it's not black and white.
edited 12th Dec '12 8:07:33 PM by Hydronix
Quest 64 thread
If you believe a Greek Goddess exists, I'd be interested to hear what evidence convinced you of that fact, but that's for a PM conversation.
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If you say "Catholic", and don't mean "Roman Catholic" then it's on you to explain what you mean.
edited 12th Dec '12 8:10:04 PM by Lawyerdude
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.Not only I support civil gay marriage as a matter of separation between Church and State: I also support religious gay marriage, and I believe that the reasons that the Catholic Church alleges for homosexual acts being always sinful are unsatisfactory. I am certainly not isolated in this: as these statistics that were linked somewhere in this thread (I cannot be bothered to find them again at the moment) show, that's an extremely common opinion among Catholics in first world nations. Heck, even my mum is of this opinion.
It does not mean that I think that the Church can do no wrong or that it does not deserve to be criticized at times: you wouldn't find many Catholics who are of that opinion — not among the "progressives", and neither among the hard-core "conservatives" judging by their complaints about Vatican II.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.I do not answer to the Pope at all. I partially follow my current Church on some views, yes.
Quest 64 threadAnd by the way, it's not the Catholic Church as a whole that has that position. It is a point of view that some Catholics have endorsed, and that other Catholics have explicitly rejected as the pathetic attempt of blame-shifting that it is.
edited 12th Dec '12 8:17:51 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.Religious people are not The Borg.
We have many different perspectives: just as I do not speak for all Roman Catholics, neither does whoever gave that interpretation. Even when the Church gives an official pronouncement, that only establishes the official position of the Church — people may or may not agree with it.
For an example, you only have to look at contraception use among Roman Catholics.
EDIT: Hydronix: I suppose that you are Old Catholic
, then? Cool!
edited 12th Dec '12 8:25:32 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.edited 12th Dec '12 8:31:14 PM by Boredman
@Carc: Saint Mary's Parish. Mainly from Appleton, but it has a branch among different cities. Roman Catholic.
And once again, we can have different opinions from our Church. We're not hive minds. We are not sheep. We think for ourselves. In addition, there are many different Catholic Church branches with many different views. Even two of the same branch are different.
You cannot get an exact opinion of one from another. They will be different in some way.
Quest 64 threadIf I dispute the assertion that homosexual acts are always sinful, or I think that women should be allowed to the priesthood, that makes me... well, someone who is not in total agreement with the current position of the Roman Catholic Church. That's a completely different thing.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.No. If there were some Divinity out there that we could perceive, then we could perform experiments and determine its nature. I am objectively a male human being. It doesn't matter who is perceiving or interpreting me.
So you believe that Mary had a virgin birth and that the elements of the Eucharist are literally the body and blood of Jesus, but you don't believe homosexuality is a sin? Why is one doctrine more credible than the other?
edited 12th Dec '12 8:36:20 PM by Lawyerdude
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.One doesn't hurt humans by existing. That simple.
It's a matter of choosing one that serves humanity better. It's not ultimately that hard to choose which one to follow sometimes. It's not even a real challenge.
Quest 64 threadBut please accept that there are many, many Catholics who believe in the virginity of Mary and in the Transubstantiation, but not in the sinfulness of homosexuality. Think us deluded, if that's how it looks like to you; but at least don't think us nonexistent.
edited 12th Dec '12 8:45:01 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.The same reason you obviously must agree with every single position of every single politician you've ever elected.
In other words, you don't.
We've been over this. We're not any more monolithic and lockstep an entity than when you insisted this 200 pages ago.
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If you say so. I just don't see how somebody can believe one thing as fact, without reservation just because a religious authority says so, but arbitrarily disbelieve something else from the same authority.
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So religious membership is the same thing as political affiliation?
Then be more clear.
edited 12th Dec '12 8:52:27 PM by Lawyerdude
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.Because those authorities are human beings. Guess what? They're not perfect and do not perfectly represent God's words. They make mistakes. In addition, one does not talk for every single Priest. It's just not that hard to understand.
We do not follow the exact same teachings altogether. We will have different opinions because we're different people.
The generalization is blatantly false.
Quest 64 threadExcept for the fact that many of their claims do not match and are contradictory. Therefore some are wrong.
Does not work that way at all. Try again.
Quest 64 threadI was clear enough, you just don't care enough to pay attention, so I'll try again.
If there is some divine entity out there, then when people talk about God, gods, spirits, or any other religious view, then they're delving into what they believe the nature of that divinity is. But since we share the same world and the same divinity (if there is one), then that means that they're all talking about the same thing, just from different perspectives.

You mean like if the Catholic Church were to blame homosexuality for child sex abuse
or call gay marriage a threat to humanity's future
?
edited 12th Dec '12 8:04:34 PM by Lawyerdude
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.