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LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:52:14 PM

LMage Since: May, 2011
#5926: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:21:08 AM

I only want organized religion gone. People should settle conflicts of faith and morality with themselves, not on the words of a charismatic preacher or a thousand year out of date book.

Telcontar In uffish thought from England Since: Feb, 2012
In uffish thought
#5927: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:44:09 AM

As long as religion is around, though, I'd expect people to organise themselves into small groups just to meet with others of the same faith, and these to grow and communicate, and so on; therefore, getting rid of organised religion in some senses may not work. Would, say, Buddhism be considered an organised religion, though? What about tiny denominations of Christianity?

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#5928: Dec 12th 2012 at 9:27:02 AM

I want theistic religion to die out. Not because I have any problem with religion, but because I find it inaccurate, and I want inaccurate beliefs to die out, so I want theistic religion to die out, just as I want creationism to die out. That being said, I don't think we should legislate against religion. Instead, we should teach people how to be skeptical and how to apply that to everything, even religion.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#5929: Dec 12th 2012 at 9:52:19 AM

Why would I want religion to die out? I don't want the Babylon Five fanbase to die out, and I hold both in about equal regard.

edited 12th Dec '12 9:52:26 AM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5930: Dec 12th 2012 at 9:58:53 AM

Dont forget that some mainline Christian denominations actually perform same-sex marriages, such as the United Church of Christ. The Episcopal Church doesn't do that yet, but it's pretty obvious to me that they are heading that way. Don't give up on organized Xianity just yet.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#5931: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:05:11 AM

I just simply see theistic belief as an unwarranted assumption and less accurate than atheistic belief. I wish to have all beliefs of that kind to die out. Everything from belief in ghosts to belief in the Loch Ness Monster. I don't want to force people not to believe, but I don't want them to.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#5932: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:06:52 AM

Just let sci fi fandoms be treated as sci fi fandoms geeze.

(This includes their separation from politics. I'm not voting for a bad candidate just because he's a fellow Browncoat.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5933: Dec 12th 2012 at 10:53:00 AM

I'm simply pointing out that the same-sex marriage issue by itself isn't necessarily a reason to write of all Christianity just yet. Attendance at non-fundamentalist churches is falling, said churches are in competition for members, I have a feeling various denomination are going to come around.

As for comparing Xianity to belief in ghosts, or sci-fi, that's an interesting debate, but off topic here. The final epic battle between the people of the faith and the "Secular Militant" will have to wait.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#5934: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:02:28 AM

I'm simply pointing out that the same-sex marriage issue by itself isn't necessarily a reason to write of all Christianity just yet.

This is true. There are plenty of other reasons. The biggest for me being "I'm not sure your god exists, or if I would worship him if he did." That's a pretty important prerequisite from my experience.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5935: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:06:55 AM

There are more options than either joining something/worshiping something vs. wishing it would go away.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#5936: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:13:49 AM

Pretty sure I said I didn't want it to go away. Though if it could be a bit less antagonistic towards anyone outside the flock, that would be nice.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#5937: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:44:39 AM

I doubt the world would be a better place without religion. People who follow religion are capable of using it for good things, and it can uplift people to better themselves, and help others. It can foster communities, and provide spiritual, and mental comfort to people who badly need it.

On the same side, religion can be used to justify all of the dark, negative desires and hatred that we all, religious, gay, straight, white, black, whatever, all humans possess. That's the kind of religion that no sane person likes. Religion isn't an excuse for bigotry, or it shouldn't be.

The sad thing is, even without religion, people would find a new scapegoat, something to put the blame on to justify their darker side. Religion is really just a tool.

([down]Heh. Yeah.)

edited 12th Dec '12 11:53:54 AM by DrTentacles

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5938: Dec 12th 2012 at 11:45:27 AM

@Morg: By "write off" I meant "give up on as eternally antagonistic to homosexuals". Should have been clearer. I'm making the assumption that many people would have less of a problem with Xianity if more churches conducted same-sex marriages. I'm not expecting massive conversion, just a lessening of mutual hostilities.

@Dr.: Presuming you meant "without"?

edited 12th Dec '12 11:47:14 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#5939: Dec 12th 2012 at 2:55:45 PM

Why would I want religion to die out? I don't want the Babylon 5 fanbase to die out, and I hold both in about equal regard.

not-sure-if-slight-against-Babylon-5-fans.jpg

edited 12th Dec '12 2:58:06 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#5940: Dec 12th 2012 at 3:34:45 PM

I would like to see religion gone. I don't want to kill it, I just wish it would wither up and die so its rotting carcass can finally be buried rather than stinking up the room.

edited 12th Dec '12 3:34:56 PM by KnightofLsama

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#5942: Dec 12th 2012 at 3:51:49 PM

@pagad: If I used Twilight, which was what came to mind first, I would derail the thread even more than it already is.

SO BOUT THEM HOMOSEXUALS

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
CalamityJane from None of your business Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Robosexual
#5943: Dec 12th 2012 at 4:05:31 PM

Please keep in mind that there are people who hold their religious beliefs very close to their heart, so much so that walking up to one and telling them that you want religion to die out would be akin to walking up to them and telling them that you want their pet/child/parents/siblings to die. Those who want religious views to die out are not considering the emotions and feelings of the religious, similar to how those who want atheism to die out are not considering the emotions and feelings of the non-theistic.

Please consider supporting my artwork on Patreon
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#5944: Dec 12th 2012 at 4:41:32 PM

[up] Yeah. I think it's a bit rude, but at least they're honest about it. I'm staunchly atheist, but I think wishing religion to die is a bit much. I'd like everyone to believe in what gives them the most happiest, while hurting others the least. In some cases, that's religion. I also think the Bible, the Koran, and other religious books are such an important part of our culture, that we'd all be made the less for their removal. If you take the time to read them, it's easy to be impressed on a purely artistic level, thinking of all the history and work that humans put into these things. Pretty much all holy books are Epic in the original sense of the word.

edited 12th Dec '12 4:47:49 PM by DrTentacles

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#5945: Dec 12th 2012 at 5:19:09 PM

I was unsure of where to put this. Since this will have an effect on religion in one way or another as well as politics I thought I would share it here and in the U.S. Politics thread.

Strong possiblity that proof that our genes and how they are expressed are linked to sexual orientation Further testing is needed but it looks like there is a good chance this might be proven.

Who watches the watchmen?
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#5946: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:28:50 PM

I'm staunchly atheist, but I think wishing religion to die is a bit much. I'd like everyone to believe in what gives them the most happiest, while hurting others the least. In some cases, that's religion.
I don't have a problem with nonbelievers saying that theistic religions should die, to be honest. It's a very natural point of view, and precisely the one that I would have if I were an atheist. I mean, from their perspectives, theistic religions are false; and it is certainly not blameworthy to wish that people did not believe in false things. Even if these false things made them happy: a happiness that is not based on truth is, ultimately, a fake one, one that will lead people to bad choices and to more suffering.

If anything, I find the "let the poor religious people believe what they believe, they cannot handle the truth" perspective rather more offensive: I'm not Christian because I'm too weak-minded to cope with the idea of a godless universe, I'm Christian because I think that Christianity is true.

Similarly, I do wish that atheism and modern materialism would disappear; and if there were people who held that Babylon 5 is a factual account, I'd most certainly wish them to learn that that's not the case.

Concern for other people's feelings is a fine thing, but it should never trump one's concern for truth.

EDIT: Back to homosexuality and religion: this is making me very angry. Long story short, a teenager who posted on facebook in support of same-sex marriage has been denied the Sacrament of Confirmation from his parish. As a Catholic, I find this deeply concerning.

edited 12th Dec '12 7:50:17 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#5947: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:41:34 PM

I would like for religion to die out. Nobody worships the Babylonian, Egyptian, Aztec or Roman gods anymore. Really, the only difference between atheists and monotheists is that monotheists believe in one god, and atheists believe in none. Humanity has worshipped thousands of gods, after all.

[up] Good. The more people that churches reject, the fewer people there are who mindlessly follow whatever their preachers say.

edited 12th Dec '12 7:42:26 PM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#5948: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:45:15 PM

Nobody worships the Babylonian, Egyptian, Aztec or Roman gods anymore.
Um, actually, there certainly are people who worship the Egyptian and the Roman gods. Some of them are in this very forum. And there are also people who worship the Babylonian or Atzec gods, for that matter.

Humanity has worshipped thousands of gods, after all.
I would rather say that humanity has developed thousands of different perspectives about the nature of the divinity. Many of them contain valuable insights; and some of these insights can be found in many different religious traditions.

edited 12th Dec '12 7:46:49 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#5949: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:52:04 PM

In any case, as a Catholic, you do agree with your Church's position on homosexuality, correct? After all, if you didn't agree with it, you wouldn't be supporting them, right?

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#5950: Dec 12th 2012 at 7:59:53 PM

You can be a catholic without agreeing on all their stances.

I'm one of those. I am specifically catholic, but I don't agree with my original church's stance on homosexuality. And even if I still supported them in general, I would just agree with certain parts.

It depends if the bad outweighs the good or not in this case. Only refusing to marry a homosexual couple alone would not be enough to denounce it all. Unless they went beyond that to actually hurt homosexuals in some way. It's a matter of context more than just "I don't like that stance." It's not black and white.

Quest 64 thread

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