Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in this thread.
Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.
Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.
Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:52:14 PM
ftfy
They call themselves seamstresses -Feet Of ClayThat petition mixes issues:
I don't really have a problem with religious people, it's just that for some reason when they talk about it IRL, it almost makes me have a panic attack.
Also this may be misconception, but e.g. the Pope has some pretty backwards ideas.
I vowed, and so did you: Beyond this wall- we would make it through.It is fair to say that he has very traditionalist ideas. He actually faced more than a little criticism (I won't go into whether it is warranted or unwarranted) from within the Catholic Church itself for that.
edited 3rd May '12 4:19:41 AM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.The United Methodist Church has recently decided to affirm its stance against homosexuals as well. Linkage
Not that this is a justification; but as the article says, one of the reasons why that vote went that way is that the United Methodist Church has a lot of popularity in Africa, where mores are definitely far more conservative on this:
This is a problem for all denominations with global ambitions — Methodism, Anglicanism, Catholicism, and so on. Mores in "the West" have changed very rapidly — and, I think, positively, as far as this topic is concerned — in the last decades; but in other parts of Earth, these changes are happening much more slowly, and perhaps not at all.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.I did say that it is not a justification. I was just explaining one important aspect of the situation as it is now.
But I should also point out that many of these cultures were rather homophobic and/or sexist, or worse, before the introduction of Christianity.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.I think the point that is trying to be made is that Christianity has done quite a bit to perpetuate these flaws in society rather then counter them- which no one can reasonably deny.
This is supported by the complete lack of solid secular argument against homosexuality. Without Christianity, gay rights would have already prevailed.
As far as I can tell, the parts of Africa in which Christianity has not penetrated do not really have more tolerant positions on the issue than the ones in which it is among the main religions. But I will admit, I have not studied this issue in depth.
edited 4th May '12 1:25:54 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
I would argue that the striking down of Prop 8 proves that Christianity is the sole justification in the modern age, and that removing any religious connotation destroys the argument in question.
Of course I wouldn't argue that in a less (for lack of a better term) civilized and modern homophobia is bound to be rampart regardless of religion (after all it has to come from somewhere) but in the moderen world, Christianity is the sole reason for it's continued preparation.
edited 4th May '12 1:31:02 PM by LMage
Without Christianity? Really? When other religions and even without religion hatred and maltreatment of gays is a thing?
I think that without Christianity people would just find another reason to be assholes to gay people. And that it depends on the culture. Like say Thailand which is more or less split in two on the issue. "WHOO GAY PEOPLE ARE COOL" and "FUCK THEM THEY ARE BEING PUNISHED AND GROSS RARGH". The exact same religion is used to support both these sides. Hint. It's not Christianity and to call all of Asia "Not modern" is kind of bullshit. Then we have atheistic homophobes.
When it comes to being a dick for any reason and in any way humans will always find a reason and an excuse with or without religion. Because humans are assholes. They're also lovely and amazingly kind.
I have no faith in their ability to not be hateful without religion though. Nor with it. Individuals? Yes. But people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
edited 4th May '12 1:33:07 PM by Aondeug
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah![]()
Oh, I am not debating that the opposition to homosexual marriage, in the United States, is near-entirely religiously motivated, and by Christianity in particular.
But the world is not the United States. In my own homecountry, the most blatant displays of homophobia do not generally come from conservative Christians, but rather from extreme right fringes (bordering on "neofascists").
And as for Africa... well, as I said, I have not studied the argument in depth, but I do not think that the homophobia is entirely religiously motivated.
edited 4th May '12 1:33:56 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.![]()
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Yeah, we have a few rather nasty neofascist groups. They harass Jews, beat up gays, that sort of thing. It is a problem.
edited 4th May '12 1:39:04 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.No. No it's not. Again Buddhism and other religions, or at times political positions and other philosophies detached from a religion, have been the reason for its existence in Asia.
^Gah... That sounds horrid.
Buddhism's justifications for the curious: "A punishment for accumulated negative kamma" and "A defiance against the Dhamma and natural purpose of humanity and sex". Neither appears within the canon. Nor do the defenses of "It doesn't cause dukkha. It is merely neutral. It is a hindrance to Enlightenment as it is sexuality however. But then so is heterosexuality."
edited 4th May '12 1:40:56 PM by Aondeug
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

edited 2nd May '12 6:32:10 AM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.