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SFW-ness, the ad server, and Naughty Tentacles

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BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#951: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:37:01 PM

No, we're defending the right to talk about fiction that contains socially unacceptable behavior. There's a difference.

You do, in fact, have the right to talk about fiction that contains socially unacceptable behaviour. And TVT, as a private organization, has the right to say "No thanks, not here". By the way, reading and praising (or "neutrally" discussing) works like Kodomo No Jikan and Boku No Pico being an example of socially unacceptable behaviour, and with good reason.

And If you think "all fiction from another country is depraved pornography" is a valid attitude, I think you have a problem of your own.

No, but the perception exists for a reason. Is xenophobia a part of it? No doubt. But there are other reasons. Think about why that might be.

In any case, I think a site that thinks "naughty tentacles" are in any sense innocuous and family friendly has already lost the right to complain about its interests being stereotyped in that way.

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LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#952: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:38:11 PM

If we're deleting pages for all works that contain sexual content involving minors (whether positively portrayed or not, we're going to have to remove A Song Of Iceand Fire. Also such works as Lockie Leonard. And also numerous crime shows.

Look, I'm comparatively a very prudish troper, but even I think this is a little too far.

Be not afraid...
FringeBenefits Magical Girl Authority™ from in your basement (Veteran) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Magical Girl Authority™
#953: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:39:05 PM

[up]We're not implying that Naughty Tentacles is family friendly. It's not, but it's as valid a trope as anything else. Pretending it doesn't exist is just stupid.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:41:22 PM by FringeBenefits

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#954: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:39:10 PM

Should we just go to No Such Thing As Notability and add a disclaimer that we don't host pro-pedophilia works?

That page is entirely about the obscurity of what we trope; not subject matter.

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feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#955: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:39:15 PM

@Loni: As was said before, please stop mentioning pages Fast Eddie would have to cut. He'll just cut them.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:39:25 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#956: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:39:25 PM

At this point I'm worried just arguing will get us banned.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:42:57 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#957: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:39:29 PM

I'm not saying that you should donate, in particular for censorship. I'm just asking to not withhold resources that can help us get out of this mess, that's why I suggest trying to legally bind the donations if you can. I mean, we do have precedent that people who have donated have demanded refunds.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#958: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:40:02 PM

[up][up][up] He's probably just gonna tell us that we're just jumping to conclusions.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:40:34 PM by Psyga315

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#959: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:41:26 PM

Feo, are you actually advocating the wilful obstruction of Eddie's ability to carry out (new) site policy?

@ Fringe: Which is why, no doubt, that page was absolutely SFW and carried no misogynistic connotations or eroticization of rape, and no ordinary human being could possibly have found it objectionable.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:43:40 PM by BobbyG

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FringeBenefits Magical Girl Authority™ from in your basement (Veteran) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Magical Girl Authority™
#960: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:41:40 PM

Check it out. Clicking on Naughty Tentacles now just brings up a big message that says "We do not want a page on this topic."

So much for not bowing to censorship or Moral Guardians, huh?

edited 11th Apr '12 5:42:29 PM by FringeBenefits

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#961: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:42:25 PM

Yeah, I just checked it before you did.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
#962: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:42:36 PM

[up][up]oh sadsadsad

edited 11th Apr '12 5:42:42 PM by Bookyangel2438

Alt account of Angeldog 2437.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#963: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:43:33 PM

Yes. Because we don't support censorship. If Eddie doesn't have to host works he finds questionable we don't need to finance policy we find questionable.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#964: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:43:37 PM

All this time, when I and others have been saying "we should continue to have a page on X," have people been hearing "X is a morally good work that promotes good values" or "X has socially redeeming value"? Or even "I like X" or "I've read X"?

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#965: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:44:09 PM

@Bobby: Not obstruction. Inaction. Those who want to report the pages can. It's too big a job to easily be handled without help, so the pace at which it's finished will show how well or how badly this has been received. (I think I'm not the first to advocate it in this thread.)

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#966: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:44:22 PM

The China-like banner also removed the ability to check the history and sources for the page, it seems, so I urge tropers and curators to back up the pages they are interested about, within or without the scope of this SFW issue, as soon as they can.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#967: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:44:52 PM

Well, we can't cut Lockie Leonard, because it turns out we don't even have a page on it to start with.

My point is: That book was assigned reading for my eighth grade English class. How on earth can we claim that it is advocating or encouraging paedophilia, or that it is in any way an inapropriate subject matter for the wiki?

Be not afraid...
Bookyangel2438 from New York City Since: Jul, 2011
#968: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:45:25 PM

[up][up]Huh. surprised

I will try I think. smile

Alt account of Angeldog 2437.
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#969: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:46:03 PM

@966 I don't have the bandwidth (maybe don't even have the harddrive) to backup all mythology pages and all of The Oldest Ones in the Book.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:46:21 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#970: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:47:18 PM

@Sabboth: I can assure you you have hard disk space enough - back when in the RP I'm part of we had the largest page in the entire TV Tropes wiki, the source was still small enough that it fit in a floppy disk almost four times.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#971: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:47:39 PM

Guys, the best course of action at this point is to give reasons why the policy doesn't work and should be changed, or suggest less extreme but workable courses of action. Endless repetitions of "OMG THE WIKI IS BEING CENSORED" might be true, but it's also not helping at all. If you don't like what's happening, at least try to give an alternative or something. Complaining will get you nothing but the ire of the people that you're trying to get to listen to you.

I get that you disagree with Fast Eddie (and I disagree with some of it as well), but he's never going to listen to you if all you do is complain about him.

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feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#972: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:47:41 PM

@Arcades: I've already said it, but pages with adults raping adults won't be cut, just pages with adults raping children.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#973: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:48:31 PM

@Teeth: Well, my previous argument was that pages should be mass locked rather than cut. We'll then start a project to go over the pages for objectionable content, and to unlock the ones that are deemed safe to unlock. How does that sound to everyone?

edited 11th Apr '12 5:48:53 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#974: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:48:33 PM

@ Silent Reverence: And why would we back it up anyway, if it will never see the light of day again? I have no use for staring at it. I only curated those pages so that a popular website wouldn't have inaccurate pages about such wide cultural and religious subjects.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:53:18 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#975: Apr 11th 2012 at 5:48:54 PM

There's a practical reason not to cut School Study Media, namely, students studying it won't be able to look at the relevant TV Tropes page.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

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