Some concepts just are bad. You cannot play the "people will be offended at anything" card on everything! And if we do not distance ourselves from those horrible concepts we will be (somewhat rightfully) seen as endorsing them!
/E: Ninja'ed, but on this topic I'm glad to be ninja'ed, heh.
edited 6th Apr '12 1:51:37 PM by Octo
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficSo what we're doing so far:
- Killing creepiness on Rape Tropes, Sex Tropes, and Porn Tropes index
- Killing RL examples on the Rape Tropes, Sex Tropes, and Porn Tropes indexes
Are we adding this disclaimer or something like it: "This is a trope documented in fiction. This behavior isn't okay by any means."? In addition to the above.
Ninjas all around!
edited 6th Apr '12 1:54:05 PM by Autumncomet
One Piece blog Beyond the LampshadeI'm definitely in favor of a disclaimer, as well as renaming any tropes that sound like they're putting a positive gloss on the subject matter.
Reaction Image RepositorySuch a disclaimer would be silly. "Don't do this IRL" should be obvious. Really now, guys, what the hell? No, a disclaimer wouldn't go far enough by any means. The entire tropes would need to be rewritten in a way that condemns the concepts and rips into works which use them.
edited 6th Apr '12 1:53:01 PM by Octo
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
Um, a lot of Truth in Television tropes have RL examples that aren't creepy at all. They just state examples of the tropes.
Please yes to the Disclaimer. Some tropes are almost impossible to rename well.
So sometimes we need that little extra.
Quest 64 thread
x6 Looking at some of the tropes in that index a vast majority of them are No RL Examples Please already.
edited 6th Apr '12 1:55:08 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Wikipedia has pages on rape. That's no endorsement, it's documentation and it's written neutrally. Documentation is our goal. Disclaimer about "this thing is not cool here and will not be tolerated" along with a name that doesn't endorse the concept is what we need.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer@Octo: I'll have to take issue with the "rip into works that use them" part of that; it's entirely possible for a work to use a negative trope without being a bad work. I.e. attempting to rape someone is obviously a horrible thing, but a work that uses Attempted Rape as a plot point is not bad by any means. Including a trope in a work doesn't equal endorsing the trope.
Reaction Image RepositoryAnother thing we should add to that list there is see if it should actuually be on the index like Dude, She's Like in a Coma is not a Rape Tropes. I mean dude Snow White....
edited 6th Apr '12 1:56:34 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
I just culled real life on that one. Do you think it should have them? I can still cancel the edit.
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Nuke 'em. They're not that bad, but it's no real loss.
Maybe move that somnophilia link to the description though, as in "In Real Life this is referred to as somnophilia."
edited 6th Apr '12 2:00:17 PM by Discar
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.![]()
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A lot of those RL examples on that page I think are still creepy way beyond what the page actually covers in the description which is kissing and such.
edited 6th Apr '12 2:00:24 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Okay, that's a bit more understandable.
@lu: I'd say nuke it.
edited 6th Apr '12 2:00:45 PM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image RepositoryI can actually agree on cutting Real Life examples on anything, not just Sex Tropes, since this Wiki is supposed to be about fictional works. Sex Tropes applied to religious texts and stories would be a real problem, though. For non believers, they are only fictional works like any other, but what of believers?
I agree. The No Negativity rule limits our ability to depict horrible acts for what they are. This makes the wiki way more creepy than any example gushing about a woman's thighs.
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Yeah, that is a bit of a minefield....
Although as somebody who's actually studied some of that subject matter I can definitely say that there are definitely tropes at work there in how things are written; it's just that depending on how much stock you put in historical accuracy (and whether they were intended to be historically accurate), it's more akin to stuff like News Tropes than fiction tropes. It's still a form of media, and still includes tropes that can be categorized. I mean, we trope non-fiction books, don't we?
edited 6th Apr '12 2:03:30 PM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image RepositoryAlright from what I can agree with...
- Remove the RL examples from Porn Tropes, Sex Tropes, and Rape Tropes
- De-creepify and trim the examples from Porn Tropes, Sex Tropes, and Rape Tropes where necessary
- Fix some of the titles in those indexes (along with adding in disclaimers) so that they are more neutral. We do not want to criticize works that use them - we are documentors at first, not critics.
edited 6th Apr '12 2:06:45 PM by Delvarian
Always looking for a good MMORPG with a great community...I think that Real Life can be culled on Sex Tropes and Rape Tropes. I don't think we need to start culling them on things like Big Fancy Castle.
That sounds like a great plan of action.
edited 6th Apr '12 2:03:02 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

An informative title that shows we do not endorse the opinion. In the current situation a title like Rape Is Love is kind of not going to fly even if it's perfectly accurate and informative.